Kobe and Bron were totally different players entering the league.

That below average PG Cleveland has went for 33 tonight.

 

Chump..

One last thing for the night. Kobe's first six years of his career averaged 19.9. LeBron averages 27. Just wait till 2010 when LeBron gets someone comparable in caliber to Pippen or Shaq. Just wait.

 

Kobe will be slipping his 4th ring on his finger while you wait. :walk::walk:

Kobe only had a triple-double tonight? Weak...

Um let me throw in there LeBron's #'s for last night. 34 Points, 14 Assists and 7 Boards. Not a triple double but pretty decent stats nevertheless. And every player has a decent night or two during the summer. David Lee is averaging 20+ and 11 this season. But on a day in day out basis, all of the point guards I listed above are better than Mo Williams.

Sam I am and Bibby? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: He couldn't win one with Penny in his prime so I don't see why he would win one with any of these guys.

 

Shaq made Penny. He wasn't even close to All-star level after Shaq left. He (Penny) was a 2nd year player the year they made the finals, not exactly the prime of a career for most players. May have been his best years, but everyone was better around a healthy diesel.

That below average PG Cleveland has went for 33 tonight.

 

One good game over 30 is justification. Sure Mo is decent, but he's not even in the top 100 players in the league probably. Gasol definitely is and Bynum probably is.

 

As for Kobe getting ring number 4, he may very well do it. But, also LeBron could win a title this year as well. Over the course of a 7 game series, LeBron is a beast to guard, because he is so physical. Kobe is tough as well, but its more of a mental thing guarding him. LeBron is the toughest player to guard over a 7 game series as he can beat you up, drive by you, hit the j, and defend with the best of them. Also, he is so unselfish you really have to play him with just one defender "IF" the role players can knock down uncontested J's.

But, Oh well, I'm guessing you are a hard core Kobe fan, and LeBron could average 40 for his career and win 10 straight finals over Kobe and you still wouldn't budge. Really it's like comparing Chamberlain to Russell, Brady to Manning, or any other two players of this caliber.

You don't have to agree, but don't discredit LeBron. Even if he isn't worthy of being above Kobe in your eyes, he is clearly the more talented of the two. And if the only thing you have against him is you haven't seen enough clutch from him, if he wins the title hitting the game winner in Kobe's face will you change your mind? Probably not. Nothing would change your mind and thats okay, we all have our opinions, just don't laugh at mine or anyone elses like Spikes'. We have both given legit reasons to why we think LeBron is superior which would validate our side of the argument. The best player is always subjective. What makes one player great to you may be overlooked by me and vice-versa.

Shaq made Penny. He wasn't even close to All-star level after Shaq left. He (Penny) was a 2nd year player the year they made the finals, not exactly the prime of a career for most players. May have been his best years, but everyone was better around a healthy diesel.

 

It had nothing to do with the 1,000 injuries he had.

I have said from day one Lebron isn't better than Kobe YET. Get over it. You won't change my mind no matter what stats you throw at me and I probably won't change my mind until he wins a ring.

I have said from day one Lebron isn't better than Kobe YET. Get over it. You won't change my mind no matter what stats you throw at me and I probably won't change my mind until he wins a ring.

 

I figured that out man. I was wasting my time. And really I could care less if you think he's better or not. Just don't laugh at me saying that, because probably half of basketball fans do think LBJ is better, so we must see something. Atleast, I can back up my reasoning with sound evaluations and not just biased opinion. If you think Kobe is better throw in something more then 3 titles. Yes he was a HUGE part of those teams. But, he did also have Shaq and that has to be remembered and you really have taken that out. Shaq was the MVP of those teams. Shaq was the one making the big dunks, and dominating. Kobe wasn't even really coming into his own until the 2nd or 3rd title. Titles are really overrated in evaluating greatness anyways. Are you going to discredit Dan Marino and say that he wasn't better than Terry Bradshaw? Or are you going to say that Bill Russell is the greatest player ever because he won the most titles. And if titles are the standard, why would one for LeBron change your mind? ONE isn't that still 2 less than Kobe, and 5 less than Jordan? Yes! Titles are a decent standard, but if they are the only one you use then YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND BASKETBALL. It's a team game! You have to have the right cast to even have a chance to win the 'Ship, no matter how good you are.

And Kobe has played twice as long as LeBron. How many players "lead" their teams to titles at 24 with really no second scoring option? If you want to throw out Mo that is fine, but you can't use that argument because this is his first season with him. For Big Z, you have to be joking, that was really a reach. Honestly, if he had any trade value at all the Cavs would have gotten rid of him a long time ago. He only is good for little jumpers. He's not a very good back to the basket player, and isn't quick enough to guard quality bigs. 2 years ago in the finals, Tim Duncan made him look slow. TIM DUNCAN!! A fabulous player and hall of famer, but not exactly the ideal of athletic big men. Had Duncan just over-powered him or outmanuevered him that would be okay, because that has been his game for his entire career.

As for Penny's injuries, yeah they took a good bit of the athleticism out of his game, but look at others who had injuries. Grant Hill isn't anywhere near the player he used to be, but he is still adaquate and an effective player. Penny was only good with Shaq. His value went way down after that, whether he got injured or not. Most kids probably don't even know who Penny is or that he was good for 2 or 3 seasons.

Edited January 23, 200917 yr by CatsCatsCats

I have said from day one Lebron isn't better than Kobe YET. Get over it. You won't change my mind no matter what stats you throw at me and I probably won't change my mind until he wins a ring.

 

Or three.

I figured that out man. I was wasting my time.

As for Penny's injuries, yeah they took a good bit of the athleticism out of his game, but look at others who had injuries. Grant Hill isn't anywhere near the player he used to be, but he is still adaquate and an effective player. Penny was only good with Shaq. His value went way down after that, whether he got injured or not. Most kids probably don't even know who Penny is or that he was good for 2 or 3 seasons.

 

Penny averaged 20,5,5 the year after Shaq left so I don't know how you think he wasn't any good. He starts we barely any better with Shaq. After that year it was pretty much injury after injury.

Penny averaged 20,5,5 the year after Shaq left so I don't know how you think he wasn't any good. He starts we barely any better with Shaq. After that year it was pretty much injury after injury.

 

Was Penny an Elite player? Would he be remembered had it not been for Shaq?

Was Penny an Elite player? Would he be remembered had it not been for Shaq?

 

Yeah he made some fantastic commercials. :banana:

I figured that out man. I was wasting my time. And really I could care less if you think he's better or not. Just don't laugh at me saying that, because probably half of basketball fans do think LBJ is better, so we must see something. Atleast, I can back up my reasoning with sound evaluations and not just biased opinion. If you think Kobe is better throw in something more then 3 titles. Yes he was a HUGE part of those teams. But, he did also have Shaq and that has to be remembered and you really have taken that out. Shaq was the MVP of those teams. Shaq was the one making the big dunks, and dominating. Kobe wasn't even really coming into his own until the 2nd or 3rd title. Titles are really overrated in evaluating greatness anyways. Are you going to discredit Dan Marino and say that he wasn't better than Terry Bradshaw? Or are you going to say that Bill Russell is the greatest player ever because he won the most titles. And if titles are the standard, why would one for LeBron change your mind? ONE isn't that still 2 less than Kobe, and 5 less than Jordan? Yes! Titles are a decent standard, but if they are the only one you use then YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND BASKETBALL. It's a team game! You have to have the right cast to even have a chance to win the 'Ship, no matter how good you are.

And Kobe has played twice as long as LeBron. How many players "lead" their teams to titles at 24 with really no second scoring option? If you want to throw out Mo that is fine, but you can't use that argument because this is his first season with him. For Big Z, you have to be joking, that was really a reach. Honestly, if he had any trade value at all the Cavs would have gotten rid of him a long time ago. He only is good for little jumpers. He's not a very good back to the basket player, and isn't quick enough to guard quality bigs. 2 years ago in the finals, Tim Duncan made him look slow. TIM DUNCAN!! A fabulous player and hall of famer, but not exactly the ideal of athletic big men. Had Duncan just over-powered him or outmanuevered him that would be okay, because that has been his game for his entire career.

As for Penny's injuries, yeah they took a good bit of the athleticism out of his game, but look at others who had injuries. Grant Hill isn't anywhere near the player he used to be, but he is still adaquate and an effective player. Penny was only good with Shaq. His value went way down after that, whether he got injured or not. Most kids probably don't even know who Penny is or that he was good for 2 or 3 seasons.

 

 

He is right, everyone of you have discredited us and laughed. But yet you haven't given much factual evidence to support it. You have thrown things out like: "Penny Hardaway was still good after Shaq left." and "Well, since Shaq was there; you should probably throw Kobe's three rings out."

 

No, Kobe was an integral part of the three title runs that the Lakers had, and he should be remembered as one of the ten greatest NBA players of all-time. But LeBron has to be up there as one of the premier players of all-time if he keeps up the pace he is on now. So if you have any legitimate argument other than biased opinions-you, HammerTime, seems to be a Lakers fan, judging by his Avatar of Kobe in a Jordan Jersey. And PMIC seems to be a Bulls fan judging by his avatar. I am a Celtics fan, I do like LeBron, I admit, but I can also see when a player is legitimately good.

 

It's like you all do not even give LeBron credit; as though he is not any better than Tracy McGrady or Brandon Roy. Give LeBron his credit! And at least if you don't agree, respect our opinions, they are no more right or wrong than yours.