Thanks for referring to me in the third person after quoting me. That's entertaining.

 

To the point - to the Catholic Church there is a HUGE relationship between the two. The Catholic Church (not my judgement) is against the death penalty, as it is a disdain for the reverance of life. If someone that votes for Obama cannot receive communion because Obama has in the past (and likely will in the future) promoted a pro-choice agenda, it seems only logical that Kentucky catholics would not be able to receive communion after an actual execution.

We established in the other thread that the priest who said that was in the wrong. Catholics can receive Communion in spite of their support for grave evils (whether it is abortion or the unnecessary, purely retributive death penalty). It is up to the individual Catholic as to whether or not they can support those actions and still receive the Body of Christ.

We established in the other thread that the priest who said that was in the wrong. Catholics can receive Communion in spite of their support for grave evils (whether it is abortion or the unnecessary, purely retributive death penalty). It is up to the individual Catholic as to whether or not they can support those actions and still receive the Body of Christ.

 

I don't think the priest was wrong at all. Obviously, he is not aware of how those walking down the aisle for communion voted so he wasn't going to withhold communion from anyone. I believe he was sending a message that each should examine his/her situation. I believe we need a little more of that.

Didn't the killer execute judgment on the two young children ?

 

Would god have mercy on me if I were murdered and I had not been saved yet ?

 

Yes, he did. He ended their lives. And, I agree it was a terrible act that deserves to be punished.

 

As for the second question, the answer is yes. If you die unsaved, then you have forfeited the offer of mercy and will receive the judgement due a sinner. It doesn't matter whether you've murdered someone or told a lie. However, God doesn't jump in and punish us every time we commit a sin. In His grace and mercy, He continually tries to draw us to Him and gives us time and chances to respond. The point is this...if God intervened and punished people every time they "deserved" it, then He'd have never sent Jesus to die on the cross and we'd all be dead.

 

I'm not sure I worded that in the best way, but...

 

I understand the opposing view. We obviously view some acts as far worse than others. And, some acts are worse than others. With that in mind, we think there are certain crimes so bad that the people who commit them don't deserve to live and forfeit their right to life. But, the Bible says the wages of sin is death...not murder, or horrific murders, just sin...so, as sinners, we're all deserving of death. So, in the same way that God extends His grace and mercy by giving us the opportunity to accept the sacrifice that Christ made, we should do our part to allow everyone as much time as possible. Even if that means sending a guy to prison for life rather than executing him.

 

What doesn't make sense is why God would give some people, who by our standards are far more despicable, more time (a longer life) to turn to Him, while others, perhaps the victim of the crime, less? I don't think anyone can answer that. But, I'm confident the answer is not to execute that person in response.

 

I'll try to think about my response and see if I can't find a better way to word it to get my point across more clearly.

Whew! That was a close one. I almost read through this thread.

I would rather educate TBandG than to entertain him/her. That would be my judgment (note spelling).

 

Besides pointing out my spelling error, you haven't educated me. You've simply ignored the facts.

I don't think the priest was wrong at all. Obviously, he is not aware of how those walking down the aisle for communion voted so he wasn't going to withhold communion from anyone. I believe he was sending a message that each should examine his/her situation. I believe we need a little more of that.

I think his wording was a problem. I think what he was trying to express-that voting for someone due to their support for a grave evil should result in one not being able to receive Communion. But as noted by Getslow in the other thread, you can vote for a candidate in spite of their support of a position against the Church's teachings and still receive Communion (especially because the R's and D's both support things against the Church's teaching)

I think his wording was a problem. I think what he was trying to express-that voting for someone due to their support for a grave evil should result in one not being able to receive Communion. But as noted by Getslow in the other thread, you can vote for a candidate in spite of their support of a position against the Church's teachings and still receive Communion (especially because the R's and D's both support things against the Church's teaching)

 

The decision to take or not take communion is really, with very few exceptions, up to the individual. Each must decide the state of his/her condition himself/herself. And, each will, hopefully, be held accountable for those decisions.

 

Nonetheless, the priest was sending a message and I think the message needs to be sent on a regular basis. He was, I believe, calling out "Cafeteria Catholics" (by the way, all groups have a long line of cafeteria members). If you don't believe in and adher to the teachings of your particular church, why do you bother to attend other than to be seen?

The decision to take or not take communion is really, with very few exceptions, up to the individual. Each must decide the state of his/her condition himself/herself. And, each will, hopefully, be held accountable for those decisions.

 

Nonetheless, the priest was sending a message and I think the message needs to be sent on a regular basis. He was, I believe, calling out "Cafeteria Catholics" (by the way, all groups have a long line of cafeteria members). If you don't believe in and adher to the teachings of your particular church, why do you bother to attend other than to be seen?

Agreed that the message is good, just that him saying that supporting an abortion candidate is putting your soul at risk is against the Church's teaching (that you can support a candidate in spite of their position). But yet, I do love his message- I, for one, can never support a candidate who supports abortion.

Jesus, in referring to Peter who was defending him, told him "to put away the sword" that his kingdom was not about that type of power.

 

Jesus broke the 'law' when He healed on the sabbath, and when he had his follower tear the tops of wheat to eat, also on the sabbath.

 

Jesus also said - "You know that you have been taught, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth: But i tell you not to try to get even with a person who has done something to you. when someone slaps your right cheek, turn and let that person slap your left cheek. If someone sues you foryou shirt, give up your coat as well. If a soldier forces you to carry his packone mile, carre it tw. When people ask you for something, give it to them. When they want to borrow money, lend it to them. . . . I tell you to love your enemies and pray for anyone who ill-treats you. Then you will be acting like the father in heaven . . . If you ove only those people who love you, will god reward you for that? even tax collectors love their friends. If you greet only your friends, what's so gtreat about that. Don't even unbelievers do that. But you must always act like your Fther in heaven. matthew 5 38-48

 

Which Bible again was I told to read?

 

And yet when Jesus sent out the 72 disciples, I think it was at that time, he told them to take a sword with him.

 

Read the WHOLE Bible and don't just pick and choose Scripture.

 

That said, I am having more and more of a problem with the death penalty in this country.

Agreed that the message is good, just that him saying that supporting an abortion candidate is putting your soul at risk is against the Church's teaching (that you can support a candidate in spite of their position). But yet, I do love his message- I, for one, can never support a candidate who supports abortion.

 

You are a very smart young man.:thumb:

^^^^I cannot support a man who calls for a war, and can't admit his mistake.

 

Abortion isn't the only issue I struggle with.

And yet when Jesus sent out the 72 disciples, I think it was at that time, he told them to take a sword with him.

 

Read the WHOLE Bible and don't just pick and choose Scripture.

 

That said, I am having more and more of a problem with the death penalty in this country.

 

I don't know that scripture and when I take the whole of the Bible through the lens of Jesus, it is clear that he was about peace and non-violence. that He was about developing what MLK jr called the beloved community. He even says blessed are the peacemakers and I am sure that he did not mean peace through military domination like the Romans had b/c Jesus, if you read his word closely and put it in its true context is absolutely a subversive of the Roman government.

I don't know that scripture and when I take the whole of the Bible through the lens of Jesus, it is clear that he was about peace and non-violence. that He was about developing what MLK jr called the beloved community. He even says blessed are the peacemakers and I am sure that he did not mean peace through military domination like the Romans had b/c Jesus, if you read his word closely and put it in its true context is absolutely a subversive of the Roman government.

 

I was wrong. It was not when he sent out the 72 but at a time that makes it even more curiousier.

 

Luke 22

The Last Supper

7Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover."

9"Where do you want us to prepare for it?" they asked.

 

10He replied, "As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters, 11and say to the owner of the house, 'The Teacher asks: Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?' 12He will show you a large upper room, all furnished. Make preparations there."

 

13They left and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover.

 

14When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God."

 

17After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "Take this and divide it among you. 18For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."

 

19And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

 

20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. 21But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. 22The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to that man who betrays him." 23They began to question among themselves which of them it might be who would do this.

 

24Also a dispute arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest. 25Jesus said to them, "The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. 26But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. 27For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves. 28You are those who have stood by me in my trials. 29And I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me, 30so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

31"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you[a] as wheat. 32But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

 

33But he replied, "Lord, I am ready to go with you to prison and to death."

 

34Jesus answered, "I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me."

 

35Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"

"Nothing," they answered.

 

36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

 

38The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."

"That is enough," he replied.

That said, I am having more and more of a problem with the death penalty in this country.

You are a very smart young man as well. :thumb:

38 in Kentucky on death Row. I'm not saying burn them all, but in this past case. he needed to go. We can exucute him 25 times and those babies will still be dead, this guy deserved this. we can't change your mind for the folks who disagree with us, but for me its scriptual and I've already gave the verse.

 

The ark of the covenant was being moved. Only certain priests were allowed to carry it. As it was being moved the Oxen stumbles and the ark began to fall. A man reaches out to steady it and touched it. God killed him on the spot. God had warned that no man shall touch it or they would be killed.

 

God warned also do not commit murder. "And if you kill a human you to shall die."

 

I respect your views but again disagree.