China's GDP is currently an estimated 23% the size of ours. What's your point?[/quote

 

Really. WHat was it five years ago??

Let me respond (as an accused liberal) with some questions/comments:

 

First, if the top earners in this country are the ones who create jobs, why do jobs keep leaving this country?

 

Second, if a higher tax will cause the top earners undue hardship, to the point they can no longer create jobs, they will sell their company, and do so for a profit more often than not. Am I to believe the top earners in this country really give a hoot about the people who work in their companies? I don't. I've yet to see a big-business owner consider anything but the best interests of the stockholders and themselves when making this sort of decision. Small business is another matter and I know lots of well-meaning and employee-focused small business owners.

 

Thirdly, why is it that the top earners are always the first to cry foul when an increase in minimum wage is proposed, and in the same sentence decry the amount of money poured into the entitlement programs each year?

 

Just some things that strike me as needing to be answered before I let myself pity the top earners.

1. This country has never experienced negative net jobs over the course of the year. Jobs leave this countries, and new ones enter.

 

2. Many small businesses fall in categories that are "intended" to raise taxes on companies owned by the uber-rich. They are hit the hardest (often because big companies have the resources to legally evade the taxes, while small businesses don't). There is a reason why small business owners vote for a particular party...

 

3. Because the as minimum wage increase results in less jobs, and entitlement programs (at least the size of the ones in this country) are inherently unfair and ineffective.

1. This country has never experienced negative net jobs over the course of the year. Jobs leave this countries, and new ones enter.

Comparable jobs? I don't equate service sector jobs with technical/manufacturing sector jobs

2. Many small businesses fall in categories that are "intended" to raise taxes on companies owned by the uber-rich. They are hit the hardest (often because big companies have the resources to legally evade the taxes, while small businesses don't). There is a reason why small business owners vote for a particular party...

And there is a problem. The loopholes in the corporate tax structure is definitely unfair to all. But I thought we were talking personal income tax here...

3. Because the as minimum wage increase results in less jobs, and entitlement programs (at least the size of the ones in this country) are inherently unfair and ineffective.

Well, this is a conundrum of epic proportions, almost as big as the "which came first, the chicken or the egg" dilemma.

 

One could argue that raising the minimum wage will move many off the entitlement programs. However, the Catch22 is that the minimum wage, while rising, still doesn't provide enough income to pay all the bills plus health insurance. So, many can move off of food stamps, or at least qualify for less, and have to pay more or all of their rent, but still need health insurance. Even if the minimum wage were ~10.00/hr, at the current rate of rising costs, we won't be able to actively begin a shift away from entitlement programs, IMO.

From what I've seen of Biden, he's an idiot and a horrible choice for running mate. Your running mate has one job and that's not to hurt you.

One could argue that raising the minimum wage will move many off the entitlement programs. However, the Catch22 is that the minimum wage, while rising, still doesn't provide enough income to pay all the bills plus health insurance. So, many can move off of food stamps, or at least qualify for less, and have to pay more or all of their rent, but still need health insurance. Even if the minimum wage were ~10.00/hr, at the current rate of rising costs, we won't be able to actively begin a shift away from entitlement programs, IMO.

 

IMHO, the minimum wage should not be used as a tool to manipulate the entry level wage. The market should set the "true" miniumum wage and the government should set the legal minimum wage slightly below the market. That would allow market forces to act as they should, government impact on small businesses would be minimal, and it would keep businesses from taking advantage of people in desperate situations.

Comparable jobs? I don't equate service sector jobs with technical/manufacturing sector jobs

With the exception of national security issues, why do we need to keep technical/manufacturing jobs in this country? Outsourcing to other countries provides us with better and less expensive goods, aids economic growth in developing countries, encourages growth here, and therefore opens up more (and often better) jobs here.

And there is a problem. The loopholes in the corporate tax structure is definitely unfair to all. But I thought we were talking personal income tax here...

Agreed. To get back to what you were saying, I am sure there are big-business owners out there who care about their employees, but anyways, what is classified as big-business?

 

And FWIW, a sole proprietorship has no legal difference from its owner. So personal income taxes and business taxes are the same.

Well, this is a conundrum of epic proportions, almost as big as the "which came first, the chicken or the egg" dilemma.

 

One could argue that raising the minimum wage will move many off the entitlement programs. However, the Catch22 is that the minimum wage, while rising, still doesn't provide enough income to pay all the bills plus health insurance. So, many can move off of food stamps, or at least qualify for less, and have to pay more or all of their rent, but still need health insurance. Even if the minimum wage were ~10.00/hr, at the current rate of rising costs, we won't be able to actively begin a shift away from entitlement programs, IMO.

Local Churches can not provide 100% of someone's income, but they can supplement it.

 

FWIW, I consider myself an opponent of the minimum wage. I am not incredibly well-versed about it, but I think that I'd prefer a basic income, which is similar to the idea of a prebate.

Can one of the liberals on this message board please give me an answer to this? I'm still waiting.

 

Still waiting.

For people that are in favor of Biden's raising taxes on people that earn $250,000 I am still waiting on what % we should raise the highest tax bracket to. Can no one who is in favor of it give me a %? I've asked twice.

IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT TAXES!!

 

The pure capitalist system is not guided by morals and is more machiavellian than anything. Society has to provide and moral compass to the invisible hand and currently we are not. Any system that creates such a large gap between the rich and poor is blatantly unfair.

 

Food for thought ace...

 

Maybe it isn't the system but the participants in the system that have created the gap.

 

I could have choose a path in the business world and been making 3 to 4 times what I make as a public school teacher. But I choose a different path.

 

Some others choose the path to NOT get an education that is freely provided to them and then rail that they cannot get a good job that supports themselves and their family.

 

Our system by no means is perfect. But by the same token the poor in that large gap are not blameless for the position they are in, either.

Food for thought ace...

 

Maybe it isn't the system but the participants in the system that have created the gap.

 

I could have choose a path in the business world and been making 3 to 4 times what I make as a public school teacher. But I choose a different path.

 

Some others choose the path to NOT get an education that is freely provided to them and then rail that they cannot get a good job that supports themselves and their family.

 

Our system by no means is perfect. But by the same token the poor in that large gap are not blameless for the position they are in, either.

Well said.

Food for thought ace...

 

Maybe it isn't the system but the participants in the system that have created the gap.

 

I could have choose a path in the business world and been making 3 to 4 times what I make as a public school teacher. But I choose a different path.

 

Some others choose the path to NOT get an education that is freely provided to them and then rail that they cannot get a good job that supports themselves and their family.

 

Our system by no means is perfect. But by the same token the poor in that large gap are not blameless for the position they are in, either.

 

Have you read Ruby Payne's Understanding Poverty? It's based on a lengthy study of generational poverty. It's quite eye opening and as a teacher, I think that you would enjoy it. I can send you my copy, if you are interested.

 

However, I am still waiting on the sequel - How to Break the Generational Poverty Cycle.

Have you read Ruby Payne's Understanding Poverty? It's based on a lengthy study of generational poverty. It's quite eye opening and as a teacher, I think that you would enjoy it. I can send you my copy, if you are interested.

 

However, I am still waiting on the sequel - How to Break the Generational Poverty Cycle.

 

I will check for it at the public library. I fully believe based on my experiences that one generation on poverty leads to other generations on poverty.

 

I have had much more than one student tell me that they did not need no education as they were going to get a check like their parents do.

Food for thought ace...

 

Maybe it isn't the system but the participants in the system that have created the gap.

 

I could have choose a path in the business world and been making 3 to 4 times what I make as a public school teacher. But I choose a different path.

 

Some others choose the path to NOT get an education that is freely provided to them and then rail that they cannot get a good job that supports themselves and their family.

 

Our system by no means is perfect. But by the same token the poor in that large gap are not blameless for the position they are in, either.

 

Wait a minute are we talking about personal responsibility here?

 

Surely that can't be the case, it HAS to be someone else's fault doesn't it?

Wait a minute are we talking about personal responsibility here?

 

Surely that can't be the case, it HAS to be someone else's fault doesn't it?

 

The system does not get a free pass but it is not as bad as is being portrayed.

Similar to those who live in poverty should not be given a free pass on their conditions.