We went school because of the supposed need to to a another day for testing.

 

Why go for a shortened day when you know beforehand you are going to have to make up the day? Even if we did not have to make up the day, classes were only a half-hour long.

 

It was driven by the testing and no other reason.

 

My point is this...my school undergoes CATS testing, too. We didn't have school on Friday. No district was forced to go to school.

How many of them will be posed a problem or question, will need to organize their thoughts on the issue and then be able to respond with a logical answer that can be comprehended?

 

That is the basis of those things. The written pieces are just the byproduct.

 

Perhaps, but do we want to teach writing as simply a byproduct? The writing required for an open response question would be deemed a joke by many employers, not to mention college professors. In districts that have to focus the majority of their efforts on CATS or KCCT, there is no room to teach students to write fluently; with an introduction, transitions, and a conclusion. In this light, CATS does not prepare the average student for the college classroom, in my opinion.

Perhaps, but do we want to teach writing as simply a byproduct? The writing required for an open response question would be deemed a joke by many employers, not to mention college professors. In districts that have to focus the majority of their efforts on CATS or KCCT, there is no room to teach students to write fluently; with an introduction, transitions, and a conclusion. In this light, CATS does not prepare the average student for the college classroom, in my opinion.

 

You do realize that the only point of HS is not to prepare for college.

Perhaps, but do we want to teach writing as simply a byproduct? The writing required for an open response question would be deemed a joke by many employers, not to mention college professors. In districts that have to focus the majority of their efforts on CATS or KCCT, there is no room to teach students to write fluently; with an introduction, transitions, and a conclusion. In this light, CATS does not prepare the average student for the college classroom, in my opinion.

 

I have a masters degree and in my 6 years of college I have never had an open response question at the college level. So why are they so important at the high school level?:madman:

What could really be taught at school if every decision didn't revolve around CATS? Kids who write well and can pretend they know alot can do well on the CATS. However, the ACT which is a timed multiple choice test (decides entrance to colleges and scholarship recipients) can not be faked. Kids often score Proficient/Distinguished on CATS and can't get a 20 on the ACT.

You do realize that the only point of HS is not to prepare for college.

 

Of course there are many other worthy goals. However, in my opinion the single most important goal of any high school is to provide each student with the opportunity to be successful. Under CATS, that opportunity to be successful in the college classroom is being decreased for Kentucky students. Also, for those that do not go on to college, they will still need to be able to communicate with the written word effectively (i.e., email, letters, etc.).

I have a masters degree and in my 6 years of college I have never had an open response question at the college level. So why are they so important at the high school level?:madman:

 

Exactly :thumb:

And of all the accountability that is measured, the students are not held accountable at all. What happens if they walk in and totally blow the test? Nothing to them but a lot to the schools and teachers. That is the ridiculous part.

And of all the accountability that is measured, the students are not held accountable at all. What happens if they walk in and totally blow the test? Nothing to them but a lot to the schools and teachers. That is the ridiculous part.

 

:thumb:

I have a masters degree and in my 6 years of college I have never had an open response question at the college level. So why are they so important at the high school level?:madman:

 

As a middle school teacher with the responsiblity of having my 7th grade students produce a portfolio, I can tell you without a doubt in my mind that its a complete and utter waste of time. You spend so much time revising the same pieces over and over that I can't figure out how that is suppose to actually "educate" the students. On the other hand, if I don't put all of the time I can into the portfolio's then I am in the line of fire from the administration, who is under fire from their bosses and so on. What choice does the teacher have? The answer, ZERO!

 

 

(that is if they enjoy being employed)

As a middle school teacher with the responsiblity of having my 7th grade students produce a portfolio, I can tell you without a doubt in my mind that its a complete and utter waste of time. You spend so much time revising the same pieces over and over that I can't figure out how that is suppose to actually "educate" the students. On the other hand, if I don't put all of the time I can into the portfolio's then I am in the line of fire from the administration, who is under fire from their bosses and so on. What choice does the teacher have? The answer, ZERO!

 

 

(that is if they enjoy being employed)

 

While I would not be called a CATS supportor at my high school, I will repeat the propaganda we are told.

 

You are revising because you are teaching them what a good piece should be and moving them to understand the proper way to write rather than just accept a poorly written piece.

Of course there are many other worthy goals. However, in my opinion the single most important goal of any high school is to provide each student with the opportunity to be successful. Under CATS, that opportunity to be successful in the college classroom is being decreased for Kentucky students. Also, for those that do not go on to college, they will still need to be able to communicate with the written word effectively (i.e., email, letters, etc.).

 

Your last sentence stands in favor of portfolios as students focus on writing correctly and revising and revising until is is proficient.

 

Your 2nd paragraph, the proponents of CATS would argue that CATS does. I would not agree with them since there is no accountability for the students. And in real life, I am accountable for my actions.

 

And you can be successful in life without a college degree.

What could really be taught at school if every decision didn't revolve around CATS? Kids who write well and can pretend they know alot can do well on the CATS. However, the ACT which is a timed multiple choice test (decides entrance to colleges and scholarship recipients) can not be faked. Kids often score Proficient/Distinguished on CATS and can't get a 20 on the ACT.

 

ACT is overrated too. You know that Garfield was a President. So what? How does that help you in life. You can graph a point on a 4 quadrant plot? So what? How does that help you in life?

 

All testing is going to have weaknesses.

 

And a HUGE problem with ACT is what you mentioned, it is timed. But many resource students have it in their IEP that testing time is not limited. So by giving them a timed test you are now violating their IEP which is a legal document. Which is going to give there?

 

The proponent of CATS will say that the ACT tests knowledge. CATS test what you can do with that knowledge. As an employer, which would you prefer? The smart person that you have no idea the quality of work they can produce. Or the person you know can produce quality work.

Whatever happened to learning that to "wuzzle" means to mix? Or that a "Yonker" is a young man? Or that a "baloo" is a bear? It's been 20 years and I can still remember all those. But as a kid who graduated in the early 90's as a part of the first open response testing (it was merely a "try out" thing then) I have no idea what I answered or learned when I was asked to describe how I would choreograph a dance depicting the horrors of war.

 

I can sit down with any of these English Professors at our college where I work and they will tell you they have to completely reteach Fundamental Writing to Kentucky kids while the Ohio, and event the West Virginia kids, are light years ahead. One professor who has taught here for 17 years told me he has yet to see a "Distinguished" portfolio piece that would get an "A" in his class.

I would agree if the employer could see the Cats scores. The problem is no one can see them and the state will tell you that the test cannot be used to judge individual students because they all take a different test. This is why the students cannot be held accountable in any way.