So (under NFHS rules) can the ball still be in the pitcher's hand "dangling to the side" if he is: 1) not bending over and/or, 2) doesn't have both shoulders facing the plate (which I guess is possible if you twist your torso)? I guess I can see an advantage if the pitcher on working from the stretch and initially has both shoulders turned towards the plate, as he is effectively already making 1/2 of his turn towards first base, thus allowing for a much quicker pickoff move.

 

Howver, if standing and dangling ball is allowed under NFHS, the pitcher can just as effectively conceal the ball than in the above scenario you presented. Again, perhaps you are right and it's something you'd have to see in person, but given that it's permissible in MLB, it can't be all that much (if any) of an advantage to the pitcher.

 

BTW, regarding the sliding base rule - unless it's specifically discussed before the game as being prohibited, then yes, we play OBR rules that the runner must only be able to make arm contact with the bag.

 

My understanding is that MLB balks the bejesus out of the move(which is actually a balk) at the lower levels. They know exactly what isn't a balk and what is, and get to review tapes to help pinpoint exactly what is. Therefore, the "advantage" of using the stance is significantly reduced. Thus, not many people use the stance.

 

You have the right thought process in the first paragraph. Think about it. What would happen if you were in the normal stretch and you moved your pitching hand toward your glove and then back away? Or if your arm swung towards the bag at 1st while on the rubber? Now you see all of the "grey" area that this stance creates.

Both shoulders facing the plate in the 'stretch' position?

 

RHP

 

Right foot - Toe facing 3B

Left foot - Toe facing Home Plate/3B "ish"

Weight forward on left foot

Left arm - resting on left thigh while leaning forward(possibly also done with glove on left knee)

Right arm - dangling at side

 

Do that and you'll either A) be playing twister or B) be in the guerilla stance.

RHP

 

Right foot - Toe facing 3B

Left foot - Toe facing Home Plate/3B "ish"

Weight forward on left foot

Left arm - resting on left thigh while leaning forward(possibly also done with glove on left knee)

Right arm - dangling at side

 

Do that and you'll either A) be playing twister or B) be in the guerilla stance.

 

I thought you meant shoulders squared towards home and torso pointed towards third. That would be impressive.

I thought you meant shoulders squared towards home and torso pointed towards third. That would be impressive.

 

Yes, it would..........:lol:

Okay, we claim to know Baseball but let's see. Just answer the questions, to the best of your ability.

 

1) Batters Box width - 3'-6" · 4' · 4'-6"

2) Catchers Box width - 41" · 42" · 43"

3) Homeplate width - 17" · 18 · 19"

4) Pitchers Plate width - 4" · 5" · 6"

5) Pitchers Plate length - 22" · 24" · 26"

6) Distance from Homeplate, to Pitching Plate - 60' · 60'-6" · 61'

7) Is "Black" part of Homeplate - Yes · No

8) Pitchers Circle diameter - 18' · 19' · 20'

 

1) Batters Box width - 3'-6" · 4' · 4'-6"

2) Catchers Box width - 41" · 42" · 43"

3) Homeplate width - 17" · 18 · 19"

4) Pitchers Plate width - 4" · 5" · 6"

5) Pitchers Plate length - 22" · 24" · 26"

6) Distance from Homeplate, to Pitching Plate - 60' · 60'-6" · 61'

7) Is "Black" part of Homeplate - Yes · No

8) Pitchers Circle diameter - 18' · 19' · 20'

Ever hear of this happening?

 

At the Urban Legends Tournament, USC and, I think, it was Beth-Cook. USC has man on 2nd with two outs. Batter hits line drive right at center fielder but rather short. Center fielder sprints in, dives forward, appears to catch the ball, but it comes loose when he hits the ground. Batter gets single (credited with hit) and runner from 2nd scores.

 

Next batter comes up and gets a pitch thrown to him. THEN, the third base umpire decides that the center fielder really did catch the ball and overrules the play two pitches before.

 

I know this can't be right.

Ever hear of this happening?

 

At the Urban Legends Tournament, USC and, I think, it was Beth-Cook. USC has man on 2nd with two outs. Batter hits line drive right at center fielder but rather short. Center fielder sprints in, dives forward, appears to catch the ball, but it comes loose when he hits the ground. Batter gets single (credited with hit) and runner from 2nd scores.

 

Next batter comes up and gets a pitch thrown to him. THEN, the third base umpire decides that the center fielder really did catch the ball and overrules the play two pitches before.

 

I know this can't be right.

 

I saw that. I kept saying, "no way, no way!" As I said, "I'd get thrown out for that call." They came back from commercial and showed the coach getting thrown out.

 

To top it off, the 3rd base ump (of a 3-man crew), who made the call, should've been watching the other baserunner. It was the 1st base umps call because of their rotation and he called it a hit.

It was a very bad call.

Ever hear of this happening?

 

At the Urban Legends Tournament, USC and, I think, it was Beth-Cook. USC has man on 2nd with two outs. Batter hits line drive right at center fielder but rather short. Center fielder sprints in, dives forward, appears to catch the ball, but it comes loose when he hits the ground. Batter gets single (credited with hit) and runner from 2nd scores.

 

Next batter comes up and gets a pitch thrown to him. THEN, the third base umpire decides that the center fielder really did catch the ball and overrules the play two pitches before.

 

I know this can't be right.

 

This really happened? Yikes.

This really happened? Yikes.

 

"I seen it!"

Was going to ask what they did with runner that scored, but now see that there was two outs. Pretty bizarre call.

Its not a force out. A force out is defined as being forced to the next bag by the following runners.

 

The runner is forced to go back to first on a fly out, just like he is forced to go to second on a ground ball, therefore it is a force out and the run would not count.

The runner is forced to go back to first on a fly out, just like he is forced to go to second on a ground ball, therefore it is a force out and the run would not count.

 

Absolutely 100% wrong. It is NOT a force out. This play is specifically addressed is the major league rulebook under the definition of a "force out." Look it up. It is considered a timing play and the run scores.

Absolutely 100% wrong. It is NOT a force out. This play is specifically addressed is the major league rulebook under the definition of a "force out." Look it up. It is considered a timing play and the run scores.

 

I stand corrected. :sssh:

 

A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

 

Example: Not a force out. One out. Runner on first and third. Batter flies out. Two out. Runner on third tags up and scores. Runner on first tries to retouch before throw from fielder reaches first baseman, but does not get back in time and is out. Three outs. If, in umpire's judgement, the runner from third touched home before the ball was held at first base, the run counts.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2007/02_definitions_of_terms.pdf

I stand corrected. :sssh:

 

A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

 

Example: Not a force out. One out. Runner on first and third. Batter flies out. Two out. Runner on third tags up and scores. Runner on first tries to retouch before throw from fielder reaches first baseman, but does not get back in time and is out. Three outs. If, in umpire's judgement, the runner from third touched home before the ball was held at first base, the run counts.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2007/02_definitions_of_terms.pdf

 

For the record, I absolutely 100% agreed with you - up until this exact same play occured TWICE during our summer season 3 or so years ago and I found out "the rest of the story". You get educated real fast when bizarre plays like this actually occur in your presence! :thumb: