So then after this year when Weis goes 4-8, he should get fired. Ty didn't the benefit of the doubt why should Weis?

 

One difference would be that it would only be 1 sub-par season for Weis, while Ty had two in a row before he was let go.

Didn't Ty recruit a big-time high school qb who was a first round draft pick?

 

The same one that Charlie reaped the advantages from?

 

Did he recruit Tommy Z.

 

Did he recruit the kid that the Bengals now have at safety as a rookie?

 

Would Quinn have been as good if Ty was here? Would Quinn have been a first round pick if Ty was here? Those anwers are both no IMO. Charlie helped turn Quinn into that good QB...As for the Tommy Z. and the Bengals safety yes Ty did recruit those guys. But that is not that good if you can only name 3 people that Ty brought in who ended up being good...Ty had Jeff Schmajaja but only used him in practice, Charlie discored him and used him. Weis helped get Stovall career back on track after it had stalled after his freshman season. So yeah Ty brought in some players who ended up being good once they got in Charlie system. I think you would have to agree that those guys would not have been near as good if they had still been in Ty's offense. If Ty had stayed for another year, those players probably wouldn't have done much as great as they did with Charlie and probably just been average. So the whole recruiting thing would have looked really bad on Ty's part then...

So then after this year when Weis goes 4-8, he should get fired. Ty didn't the benefit of the doubt why should Weis?

Here's the thing. I believe that Ty was let go too soon. He did not get a fair chance. However, Ty was boring, everything about him, and he was not winning. He was losing his fan base with his stone face and 18 ppg offense. Now, Weiss shaped Quinn into one of the best QBs in ND history. Weiss is a great offensive mind, I mean he did win 3 Super Bowls as an O-Coordinator. I have more faith in Weiss than I did Ty. So, in closing, I feel that Ty got let go too quickly, but race had nothing to do with it. It was the direction that the program was going in. After two 10 win seasons, Weiss will only be in trouble if they go 9-3 or worse next year.

Would Quinn have been as good if Ty was here? Would Quinn have been a first round pick if Ty was here? Those anwers are both no IMO. Charlie helped turn Quinn into that good QB...As for the Tommy Z. and the Bengals safety yes Ty did recruit those guys. But that is not that good if you can only name 3 people that Ty brought in who ended up being good...Ty had Jeff Schmajaja but only used him in practice, Charlie discored him and used him. Weis helped get Stovall career back on track after it had stalled after his freshman season. So yeah Ty brought in some players who ended up being good once they got in Charlie system. I think you would have to agree that those guys would not have been near as good if they had still been in Ty's offense. If Ty had stayed for another year, those players probably wouldn't have done much as great as they did with Charlie and probably just been average. So the whole recruiting thing would have looked really bad on Ty's part then...

 

I'm not a Ty supporter, but I won't be that harsh on him either. I'm not sure we can really answer that question. Quinn was a talented QB and it is likely that he would have improved each season even under Ty. No doubt he benefited from playing under Weis, but I won't say that he wouldn't have been a Heisman contender had Ty still been around.

 

As far as Tommy Z, I'm not sure that he has benefited any from Weis. I'm not sure Weis even realizes that the Irish have defensive players. He didn't really try to recruit any in his first two classes. Thank God, he finally began to address some of those needs this season.

Here's the thing. I believe that Ty was let go too soon. He did not get a fair chance. However, Ty was boring, everything about him, and he was not winning. He was losing his fan base with his stone face and 18 ppg offense. Now, Weiss shaped Quinn into one of the best QBs in ND history. Weiss is a great offensive mind, I mean he did win 3 Super Bowls as an O-Coordinator. I have more faith in Weiss than I did Ty. So, in closing, I feel that Ty got let go too quickly, but race had nothing to do with it. It was the direction that the program was going in. After two 10 win seasons, Weiss will only be in trouble if they go 9-3 or worse next year.

 

Wow, this Weiss fellow has a pretty impressive resume, perhaps Notre Dame should offer him a job.

 

For the record Weis has only had one 10 win season, they were 9-3 his first year. I disagree however, that he would be in trouble at 9-3 next season. The team, especially the defense, will still be rather young next year. Personally, I think 9-3 next year would be great. I would even settle for 8-5 with a bowl game victory.

I'm pretty sure the answers to those questions is yes.

 

What about that Jeff "weird last name" guy?

 

Jeff Samardzija

Wow, this Weiss fellow has a pretty impressive resume, perhaps Notre Dame should offer him a job.

 

For the record Weis has only had one 10 win season, they were 9-3 his first year. I disagree however, that he would be in trouble at 9-3 next season. The team, especially the defense, will still be rather young next year. Personally, I think 9-3 next year would be great. I would even settle for 8-5 with a bowl game victory.

 

 

Haven't you guys been waiting on that bowl victory for like 13 years?

 

Just saw a pretty cool t-shirt.....On the front it says in big letters "Notre Lame" then in small print right below that..."Consistently losing Bowl Games since 1995" :lol:

Haven't you guys been waiting on that bowl victory for like 13 years?

 

Just saw a pretty cool t-shirt.....On the front it says in big letters "Notre Lame" then in small print right below that..."Consistently losing Bowl Games since 1995" :lol:

 

I just saw a t-shirt as well. :sssh:

One of my good friends is a huge ND fan, and he says the only reason Ty isn't still there is because he was black, and that ND was looking for any and every reason to get rid of him. I think there's a lot of truth to it.

 

Then why did they even hire him if they are so racist in South Bend? Believe what you want, but I am not buying that at all...

 

People use Lloyd Carr as a parallel between Tubby Smith. I look at Ty Willingham as a better parallel to Tubby. Only difference is, the fans and administration did not like what they saw from the onset (even in Ty's first year, it was the ugliest 9-3 season ever).

Along those lines, Notre Dame haters always give the Irish such a hard time about playing the service academies, however, in his first year Ty only beat Air Force and Navy by 7 points each. He followed up that year by only beating Navy by 3 the following season. It also doesn't help that he lost to "Fredo" 3 years in a row.

Well said.

 

To suggest that a Coach who has taken both of his teams to BCS games should be on the hot seat is laughable. Notre Dame may have loonier fans than Kentucky. :lol:

Then why did they even hire him if they are so racist in South Bend? Believe what you want, but I am not buying that at all...

 

People use Lloyd Carr as a parallel between Tubby Smith. I look at Ty Willingham as a better parallel to Tubby. Only difference is, the fans and administration did not like what they saw from the onset (even in Ty's first year, it was the ugliest 9-3 season ever).

 

:thumb:

 

I agree. I don't buy the idea that race is the #1 reason why Willingham was axed and Weis was hired...I think ND wasn't satisfied with Ty from the onset. Like you said, that was an ugly 9-3? (I thought it was 10-3) season...and they faltered down the stretch. And contrary to what people say or think, I don't see where he had them headed in the right direction...they were in decline and he wasn't recruiting well enough for anyone to expect improvement in the future. You can argue that ND should have honored the contract if you want...but Weis is doing a better job and his recruiting is better, which bodes well for the future. I think Notre Dame would have gotten rid of almost any coach with the three year track record of Willingham because they saw an opportunity to get a guy they wanted (Weis) who was a hot name.

:thumb:

 

I agree. I don't buy the idea that race is the #1 reason why Willingham was axed and Weis was hired...I think ND wasn't satisfied with Ty from the onset. Like you said, that was an ugly 9-3? (I thought it was 10-3) season...and they faltered down the stretch. And contrary to what people say or think, I don't see where he had them headed in the right direction...they were in decline and he wasn't recruiting well enough for anyone to expect improvement in the future. You can argue that ND should have honored the contract if you want...but Weis is doing a better job and his recruiting is better, which bodes well for the future. I think Notre Dame would have gotten rid of almost any coach with the three year track record of Willingham because they saw an opportunity to get a guy they wanted (Weis) who was a hot name.

 

:thumb: Great Post!!! However I dont think it was because of them wanting to get Weis, it was because of them seeing an opportunity to get Urban Meyer. But they wasn't able to get him here like they thought they would, so Weis was the next hot name available and got him instead.

The one thing Weis and Ty share is they where not ND's 1st choice.

The one thing Weis and Ty share is they where not ND's 1st choice.

That is true as well.

:thumb: Great Post!!! However I dont think it was because of them wanting to get Weis, it was because of them seeing an opportunity to get Urban Meyer. But they wasn't able to get him here like they thought they would, so Weis was the next hot name available and got him instead.

 

You're right...I forgot about Urban Meyer.