Mel Ignotoe (sp). I'm sorry, but sometimes there has to be the Death penalty.

 

Abortion stops a beating heart.

Babies should not be killed, they do not have a choice and plently of people would love to adopt them. When someone kills someone with malice intent they should be put to death.

 

 

How many unwanted babies have you adopted? And do you have any idea how many children, in this country alone are waiting to be adopted? More than 100,000.

 

Babies also don't have a choice to whom they are born. Are you as pro-life to those outside of the womb? Do you want them to have full access to healthcare and to a great education, and to heat and electricity in their home. Are you pro-being sure that they have healthy food on their table everyday and pro-parents being home in the evening when it is time to do homework? If you are pro-all of those things, are you pro sacrificing some of your hard earned money to help fund medicaid, AFDC, Section 8, etc... or ...

 

are you okay letting them live a horrible life, hungry all the time, cold in the evening, uneducated and sickly?

 

just curious -

 

if you have adopted one of those 100,000 waiting children, then I certainly applaud you.

I'm just curious how anyone can be pro-abortion and against the death penalty...:confused: :confused:

 

I thought the question asked if you are pro-choice. I read no where on there where is asked if you were pro-abortion. I know of almost no-one who is pro-abortion.

I thought the question asked if you are pro-choice. I read no where on there where is asked if you were pro-abortion. I know of almost no-one who is pro-abortion.

 

 

They are one in the same IMO.

They are one in the same IMO.

Ditto:thumb:

How many unwanted babies have you adopted? And do you have any idea how many children, in this country alone are waiting to be adopted? More than 100,000.

 

Babies also don't have a choice to whom they are born. Are you as pro-life to those outside of the womb? Do you want them to have full access to healthcare and to a great education, and to heat and electricity in their home. Are you pro-being sure that they have healthy food on their table everyday and pro-parents being home in the evening when it is time to do homework? If you are pro-all of those things, are you pro sacrificing some of your hard earned money to help fund medicaid, AFDC, Section 8, etc... or ...

 

are you okay letting them live a horrible life, hungry all the time, cold in the evening, uneducated and sickly?

 

just curious -

 

 

 

if you have adopted one of those 100,000 waiting children, then I certainly applaud you.

 

Thats a lot of worst case scenarios. Aportion should not be used as a form of birth control. Who says that every baby aborted is going to live a horrible life, be cold "in the evening" (can't they be cold in the morning?), hungry "all the time" (even after the eat?), uneducated (everyone can go to school), and sickly?

They are one in the same IMO.

 

:thumb: Tomato or Tomoto

I am kind of a fence sitter. I am Pro-life but as a guy I am never going to have an abortion am I, so while I don't think abortion is right I am not going to march in a demonstration or anything. But as a matter of principle I think abortion is very wrong. I am also against the death penalty, but I can sympathize with those that want to see justice and I can see crimes in which I would have the desire to see the person punished in that manner. But again as a matter of principle I am against the death penalty due to many human factors which could cause the innocent to die. Basically it is like this, I know that if push came to shove and I saw a person about to commit a crime of murder or violence on an innocent or a loved one, then I know I am capable of stopping them with deadly force if that is the only resort. But if someone is able to be restrained in some other way and removed from the public behind bars for life then that is punishment enough for me, in order not to make the mistake of taking the life of an innocent person.

There are reasonable moral and policy arguments on both sides of the death penalty debate. I don't think that either side can concretely demonstrate that the other is morally or pragmatically wrong. Where we, as a country, fall down on the issue will depend upon what we, as a country, want our society to look like.

 

The one area where I tend to disagree with those who have advocated against the death penalty here is on the issue of executing innocent people, and whether that is acceptable collateral damage.

 

The fact of the matter is is that we in this country "accept" innocent lives lost as collateral damage all of the time to policy decisions, without batting an eye. I recall Dennis Prager rebutting George Will's stance on this with the 'Speed Limit' analogy. We know, through studies, that raising the speed limit will result in some amount of innocent additional lives being lost, but we accept that collateral damage as a necessary side-effect to the policy benefit of increased interstate commerce. Countless other analogies are applicable here. Additionally, with the 'corrupt prosecutor' argument, the same evidence is true in all other justice system cases, but we put no energy into arguing reform of those cases. Why? Because the stakes in death penalty cases are higher? That argument only underscores that we are willing to accept the 'collateral damage' of people being imprisoned wrongfully, just not executed wrongfully. The argument just does not work.

 

In the end, when there are enough people to vote for one side of the issue, the law will change, perhaps even go back and forth. I am content to follow His command in Romans that we should follow the law, and render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.

 

I disagree with the fact that you compare policies like raising the speed limit with the death penalty. that is like comparing apples and oranges. However, that is my opinion and i do respect your right to your own opinion. I for one do not accept the collateral damage as you call it with the imprisonment of innocent people. I think it is a terrible thing. i try to take things back to myself and it would make me go insane if I was imprisoned for a crime I didn't commit. Our justice system is suppose to be set up in a way that it would be easier to be found innocent for a crime you did commit that it would to be found guilty of a crime you didn't commit. howver, our justice system is ran by people that are not always honest or people who just make human mistakes so, it does't always work like it is suppose to. My stand on capital punishment is plain and simple: no one has the right to take another persons life, not even the state in which you live. God is the almighty judge and the only being capable of perfect judgement so he is the only acceptible being to take life. IMHO

They are one in the same IMO.

 

No, they are not. I don't believe that abortion is the correct choice for a woman to make, but I do not believe that I have the right to legislate that choice for her.

How many unwanted babies have you adopted? And do you have any idea how many children, in this country alone are waiting to be adopted? More than 100,000.

 

Babies also don't have a choice to whom they are born. Are you as pro-life to those outside of the womb? Do you want them to have full access to healthcare and to a great education, and to heat and electricity in their home. Are you pro-being sure that they have healthy food on their table everyday and pro-parents being home in the evening when it is time to do homework? If you are pro-all of those things, are you pro sacrificing some of your hard earned money to help fund medicaid, AFDC, Section 8, etc... or ...

 

are you okay letting them live a horrible life, hungry all the time, cold in the evening, uneducated and sickly?

 

just curious -

 

if you have adopted one of those 100,000 waiting children, then I certainly applaud you.

 

Great points, Ace, but people won't see it that way. Many will say "no" to abortions for others, but don't like funding programs that are "welfare" and definitely don't want poor people living next door.

Nobody has commented on the fact that there are 100,000 children in American alone who are waiting to be adopted. Where are all those great people you are talking about that will adopt -

 

You know I bet people are lining up now waiting on the next woman who has been raped to decide to carry her baby to term so that they can raise it as their own

 

They are lining up for the teenager who was abused by her uncle and became pregnant to carry her baby to term so that they can raise that baby as their own

 

They are lining up for the next woman who finds out in her third trimester that there is a high possibility that she will not survive the birthing process to go ahead a carry the baby to term so that they can adopt the newborn.

 

And I know there are those who are standing by the bedside of the poor mother who struggled with the abortion decision and decided to keep the baby waiting to help her with day care costs so she can go to work at her cashier's job at the local gas station. They are also standing beside her and helping her with more child care costs b/c they want the mother to go to night school so that she can get a better job - and then they are waiting to chastise her b/c the baby struggles with attachment issues b/c the mother is never home since she is working and going to school.

 

These decisions are so easy - lets make it for everyone - but when the baby is born, don't come calling on us for help - YOU made the decision to get pregnant in the first place. Don't you know that only rich people should have babies.

 

BULL BUTTER:madman:

Nobody has commented on the fact that there are 100,000 children in American alone who are waiting to be adopted. Where are all those great people you are talking about that will adopt -

 

You know I bet people are lining up now waiting on the next woman who has been raped to decide to carry her baby to term so that they can raise it as their own

 

They are lining up for the teenager who was abused by her uncle and became pregnant to carry her baby to term so that they can raise that baby as their own

 

They are lining up for the next woman who finds out in her third trimester that there is a high possibility that she will not survive the birthing process to go ahead a carry the baby to term so that they can adopt the newborn.

 

And I know there are those who are standing by the bedside of the poor mother who struggled with the abortion decision and decided to keep the baby waiting to help her with day care costs so she can go to work at her cashier's job at the local gas station. They are also standing beside her and helping her with more child care costs b/c they want the mother to go to night school so that she can get a better job - and then they are waiting to chastise her b/c the baby struggles with attachment issues b/c the mother is never home since she is working and going to school.

 

These decisions are so easy - lets make it for everyone - but when the baby is born, don't come calling on us for help - YOU made the decision to get pregnant in the first place. Don't you know that only rich people should have babies.

 

BULL BUTTER:madman:

 

I was going to respond to this post but, I learned a long time ago that it is impossible to have a logical conversation with someone who is this sarcastic and has an obvious chip on their shoulder to boot.

 

Also, I wanted to add that I grew up with a mom and dad who were house parents at a childrens home for two years and when we left all the kids that were living with us left with us. Also, my parents adopted a young mentally handicaped girl (who was african american) because she had 8 brothers and sister who could not get adopted because they all had to get adopted or none of them could. The girl's name is Lynette and I am proud to call her my sister. My mom and dad are loving christians who raised and loved this girl as their own. I only tell this story because I was raised in a world where what you are so sarcastic about was talked abour frequently and those people who talked like you did in your post were always part of the problem and never....I repeat never part of the solution. I know when loving christians get together to solve problems like the one's that deal with the orphan problem in this country there is a difference made(however small it may be) and when people just complain and point fingers the problem just gets bigger.

IMHO from experience.

I was going to respond to this post but, I learned a long time ago that it is impossible to have a logical conversation with someone who is this sarcastic and has an obvious chip on their shoulder to boot.

 

Also, I wanted to add that I grew up with a mom and dad who were house parents at a childrens home for two years and when we left all the kids that were living with us left with us. Also, my parents adopted a young mentally handicaped girl (who was african american) because she had 8 brothers and sister who could not get adopted because they all had to get adopted or none of them could. The girl's name is Lynette and I am proud to call her my sister. My mom and dad are loving christians who raised and loved this girl as their own. I only tell this story because I was raised in a world where what you are so sarcastic about was talked abour frequently and those people who talked like you did in your post were always part of the problem and never....I repeat never part of the solution. I know when loving christians get together to solve problems like the one's that deal with the orphan problem in this country there is a difference made(however small it may be) and when people just complain and point fingers the problem just gets bigger.

IMHO from experience.

 

 

If Christians really pulled together and cared about those in poor living conditions, there would not be over 100,000 needy kids waiting on adoption and there would be less talk about the CONDEMNATION of the woman making a decision to get an abortion and more talk about the situations that create poverty in this country.

 

The people voting for the first selection (pro-life and pro-death) are great on condemnation - the mother (and doctor I guess) for performing the abortion and the CONDEMNATION of the person on death row.

 

Shouldn't real Christians be talking about redemption and grace and mercy and less about people paying for what they have done? The Jesus that i read about certainly took this approach.

 

Heck we studieD Jeremiah in Sunday school today where Jeremiah tells the people (Judeans) held in Babylonian captivity to pray for the prosperity of their oppressors . . . WOW where is the vengence and the wrath? God tells them to pray for those holding them in captivity.

 

Jesus says to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you - I guess the good Christians on here would say - THEN KILL 'EM, and send the mothers and doctors to the lake of fire.

I was going to respond to this post but, I learned a long time ago that it is impossible to have a logical conversation with someone who is this sarcastic and has an obvious chip on their shoulder to boot.

 

Also, I wanted to add that I grew up with a mom and dad who were house parents at a childrens home for two years and when we left all the kids that were living with us left with us. Also, my parents adopted a young mentally handicaped girl (who was african american) because she had 8 brothers and sister who could not get adopted because they all had to get adopted or none of them could. The girl's name is Lynette and I am proud to call her my sister. My mom and dad are loving christians who raised and loved this girl as their own. I only tell this story because I was raised in a world where what you are so sarcastic about was talked abour frequently and those people who talked like you did in your post were always part of the problem and never....I repeat never part of the solution. I know when loving christians get together to solve problems like the one's that deal with the orphan problem in this country there is a difference made(however small it may be) and when people just complain and point fingers the problem just gets bigger.

IMHO from experience.

Thank you for this very touching post. God bless your you and your beautiful family.:thumb: