I've decided to make a separate thread to avoid getting too far off topic in the one concerning Edward's "poverty tour".

 

Eastern Kentucky is a beautiful place. Wonderful scenery, fascinating history, blessed with an abundance of natural resources including coal, timber, natural gas and oil, most of which is still here. How can an area with so many opportunities be considered one of the poorest places in all of the United States? I have a theory and I would like to tell a little story to illustrate.

 

I have an acquaintance who owns a large piece of property, near two hundred acres. This property has timber, gas, and coal. A while back he was approached by an out of state gas company about exploring and drilling for natural gas on the property. The gas company researched the deed and discovered that the property owner did not own the mineral rights to a large tract of his land, more than half. This came as a complete surprise to my friend as there was no mention of it on his deed. However there is a handwritten agreement on file at the courthouse dated to 1902 where a previous owner had sold the mineral rights for two dollars per acre. This amounted to selling probably hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of coal and natural gas for the tidy sum of $200.00. Now, over a hundred years later, the fleecing of a poor, uneducated widow (I'm assuming uneducated, the widow part actually appears on the agreement) is still valid and will make a tidy sum of money for an out of state corporation while the residents of the area continue to struggle.

 

The above is repeated over and over in this area and illustrates my theory on

why this region is so poor. If a politician wants to alleviate poverty, he should begin with voiding all these rediculous documents.

 

Here's where I get controversial. Why is this area so poor? Because our ancestors were at best gullible or at worst just outright stupid. Our politicians are supported by the big oil and coal companies and are not going to bite the hand that feeds them. Face it, fellow East Kentuckians, in spite of our colorful history of long rifle hunters and Indian fighters, we are decended from people who arrived in this country when England decided to empty the slums and deptor's prisons and send them to the New World to work as servants on the plantations of North Carolina.

 

Opinions?

I think two of the issues have to due with transportation and education. While Eastern KY may not have the highest mountians, it has some of the most jagged terrain in all of the US. Building in this area, be it roads or buildings themselves is very difficult. The lack of transportation has served to reduce the inflow of people, capital, and in some instances popular culture to the region.

The issue of education is another huge factor which I think is a cause.

There's no tax base in EKY to speak of. No large employers . Farming is getting harder and harder to live on. Low % of kids going to and completing advanced education.

 

THOSE are the reasons. Not that your ancestors got jobbed.

There's no tax base in EKY to speak of. No large employers . Farming is getting harder and harder to live on. Low % of kids going to and completing advanced education.

 

THOSE are the reasons. Not that your ancestors got jobbed.

 

 

Low tax base is an effect of poverty, not a cause. Farming is and has been, for the most part, subsistance farming. It's hard to plow hillsides. Advanced education? What would they do with it? For most, it amounts to teaching, law office, or moving out of the area.

 

Do you really think that living in a trailer on a piece of land while millions of dollars worth of minerals are being mined underneath is not an excuse for poverty?

Low tax base is an effect of poverty, not a cause. Farming is and has been, for the most part, subsistance farming. It's hard to plow hillsides. Advanced education? What would they do with it? For most, it amounts to teaching, law office, or moving out of the area.

 

Do you really think that living in a trailer on a piece of land while millions of dollars worth of minerals are being mined underneath is not an excuse for poverty?

 

 

There are no large employers that I know of. That leads to a low tax base which means there isn't much cash to go towards the area. THAT contributes to poverty.

 

What would they do with advanced education? Is that a serious question? The largest portion of Americans work for private businesses. Maybe , just maybe, gaining a college education will allow one to start their own business and become successful which can snowball into many other positives.

 

Lastly, yes. Its not a valid excuse.

I am native of Harlan county and my take on things is our fore fathers (just a couple of generations ago) quit school and went to work for pennies on the dollar. They lived in coal camp's and bought their things from the company store....In most cases meant they already owed or had spent the money they were working for....But you know that was just the way it was then, the sad thing is that things haven't changed a whole lot in some places...That is the real shame....I think that all the men and women that quit school to work and raise kids(which had to be done) has really put education where it is at in eastern Ky. I dont think that is something you can change overnight...If you think about it, it really wasn't that long ago, just ask your parent's and grandparent's if they are from eastern,Ky. Also unless you witness this (the way people still live today) it is hard to believe unless you see it for yourself..I also remember the 3 subjects they taught in Harlan county. The 3r's Rithmatic,Rightin,and Route 119 the heck out of there...sadly but true this probably wasn't bad advice. Now with this being said I am in no way bashing Harlan county I still have family and a lot of friends there, I am just giving my opinion on why I think things in eastern Ky haven't changed a whole lot over the year's...Just to sum it up I think men and women having to work and raises kids and Not getting an education has a direct affect on not advancing with the times...

You're missing my point. I am in no way downplaying the importance of higher education but merely pointing out that a degree in this area does not provide the opportunities that one would find in other regions. We have programs in the area that attempt to recognise and develop some of our best young minds for leadership positions, but there are only so many private enterprises that can be supported by a small population in an impovished region.

 

My other point is that had we retained even a percentage of the money that has been made from the resourses of this area, we would have disposable, taxable financial resourses well above most areas leading to better schools, better infrastructure, and increased wealth making the area much more attractive to businesses looking to relocate. Wealth begets wealth. Poverty begets poverty.

There's no tax base in EKY to speak of. No large employers . Farming is getting harder and harder to live on. Low % of kids going to and completing advanced education.

 

THOSE are the reasons. Not that your ancestors got jobbed.

 

:lol: FARMING??? Hope you can remember where you read that one...

Seriously, and this is not personal, but you don't seem to have a clue about E. Ky.

Cat n the Hat, when I lived up north the joke was that E. Kentucky schools taught the 3 Rs, readin', 'riten, Rte. 23.

 

You support my point. Coal, which could have made this area one of the more affluent in the country, was mismanaged to become almost as much of a curse as a blessing.

:lol: FARMING??? Hope you can remember where you read that one...

Seriously, and this is not personal, but you don't seem to have a clue about E. Ky.

 

:thumb: I would love to take him on a local "farm" tour.

:lol: FARMING??? Hope you can remember where you read that one...

Seriously, and this is not personal, but you don't seem to have a clue about E. Ky.

 

Here's what I know from what I've read and what I've seen:

 

Poor

Not many jobs

Lower priority on education that other areas (as a whole - not individually)

Generations after generations of poverty

Waiting for someone to figure out how to fix the problem

Beautiful area of the state

Richie Farmer is a hero.

 

 

Does that about cover it?

 

Educate us northerners on the solution to this sad situation.

Here's what I know from what I've read and what I've seen:

 

Poor

Not many jobs

Lower priority on education that other areas (as a whole - not individually)

Generations after generations of poverty

Waiting for someone to figure out how to fix the problem

Beautiful area of the state

Richie Farmer is a hero.

 

 

Does that about cover it?

 

Are you one of the ones waiting for someone to fix it or do you and Pepper have solutions? So far, all I've seen is conspiracy theories and, to be honest, an attitude that says it will never be fixed.

And I've read what you seem to be stereotyping. The only thing consistently "farmed" in EK is green with 5 leaves and not marketable in your local Walmart. No matter how you look at it, the area will never geographically support large economy, and frankly, I don't mind that. My opinion on the poverty,,,,,those who choose to rid themselves of it do, others prefer to stay in the middle of it. No different than those who live off of the govt. $ in the heart of our large inner cities.

Here's what I know from what I've read and what I've seen:

 

Poor

Not many jobs

Lower priority on education that other areas (as a whole - not individually)

Generations after generations of poverty

Waiting for someone to figure out how to fix the problem

Beautiful area of the state

Richie Farmer is a hero.

 

 

Does that about cover it?

 

Educate us northerners on the solution to this sad situation.

 

I believe you've formed your opinion and I think I'll wait to discuss this situation with someone a bit less arrogant.

Here are some statistics on poverty in Kentucky:

 

There are 42 counties in Kentucky with greater than 20% of their population living at or below the poverty line.

 

Of those 42 counties, there are 20 with 25% of their population living at or below the poverty line.

 

There are 4 with poverty rates at or above 30%, with 6 more counties at 29%.

 

The poorest county is Owsley County, with 35.5% in poverty, and Clay county is 2nd at 34.3% in poverty.

 

Kentucky has 121 counties, so that means ~35% of Kentuckians live in poverty.

 

Of the 42 counties at 20% or above in poverty, only one is in the western part of the state...Fulton County.

 

Depending on where you draw the line, I count approximately 10 counties that could be considered south-central: Monroe, Barren, Hart, Adair, Metcalfe, Clinton, Russell, Cumberland, Casey, and Wayne.

 

That leaves 31 counties at or above 20% living in poverty.

 

Percent of total population in poverty, 2004

Kentucky has 121 counties, so that means ~35% of Kentuckians live in poverty.

 

Sorry, but your statement seems to be using some of Al Gore's Fuzzy Math.

 

Your statement is only true if you assume two things:

 

1) That each county within Kentucky has an equal population

 

2) That all of the residents within that county live in poverty.

 

Obviously Jefferson and Fayette counties offset several other counites from a population standpoint. Furthermore of your 42 impoverished counties, only 1 of them (Owsley) has a poverty rate above 35%. Therefore the amount of Kentuckians who live in poverty is far fewer than you are suggesting.