July 19, 200719 yr per cap·i·ta Pronunciation[per kap-i-tuh] –noun 1. by or for each individual person: income per capita. Okay, now let's plug the official definition into your sentence and see what we have: Poor - FALSE - more poor people (by or for each individual person) but also a lot more rich people (by or for each individual person). A minority of the residents are poor. Game - set - match. :lol: I love it when people who are trying to put down an entire region don't know basic fourth grade terms. The irony just strikes me as, well...hilarious.
July 19, 200719 yr If you took anything I said as an insult (other than the part about today's problems being related to the ancestors getting jobbed) as an insult, you were seeking one. YOU said that there is not much value in getting a college degree when there are no jobs to come back to. I said that education improvement can only help the region. Suck it up? Is that what you read when I said that education can be a catalyst? Is that what you read when I said that you (collectively) can't spend time blaming something that happened a century ago? How is deciding collectively that education improvements (in high school and beyond) not treating the problem and only treating the symptoms? I must say that you and Billy throw around a lot of insults when there were none there. One of us 3 actually was called ignorant yet didn't fly off the handle while the other 2 read way too much into comments. I'll let you decide where you fall. If you're going to start a discussion on EKY poverty, a)don't start it with some excuse from 100 years ago and b)don't get insulted when the region as a whole is described accurately . So, with that said, lets hear some common sense discussion on how to change the lot of the poorest section of the Commonwealth. Since I have family in that area, I'm all ears. Clarifying a second time, I did not call you ignorant, I said you were ignorant of the facts. You know the difference, and it wasn't an insult.
July 19, 200719 yr Yes, you do. 1.) Poor - FALSE - more poor people per capita, but also a lot more rich people per capita. A minority of the residents are poor. Most are not. So obviously you can't call the "AREA AS A WHOLE" poor. 2.) Not many jobs - FALSE - Anyone who wants a job can get one in Eastern Kentucky. Anyone who doesn't work just doesn't want to or need to. 3.) Lower priority on education than other areas (as a whole - not individually) - FALSE, and preposterous. Check Pikeville Independent, Paintsville Independent, Hazard Independent (among others) test scores against schools in your area, you will be shocked, and not in a good way. 4.) Generations after generations of poverty - FALSE - sure it happens, but again, VERY small percentage, certainly nowhere close to resembling the region "AS A WHOLE." 5.) Waiting for someone to figure out how to fix the problem - FALSE, and preposterous, and not worthy of a response. Returning all the coal severance tax money that goes to Northern Kentucky would be one of my "fixes" though. 6.) Beautiful area of the state. Welllllll, you got one.:ylsuper: Sorry, but I have to disagree with you with #3. The schools you named are city/private schools. Not the area public and count schools that are in most counties. These city school systems have seperate school boards than the county school systems do and, unfortunately, all children aren't given the opportunity to receive the quality of education from a county school that they would receive from one of these city schools.
July 19, 200719 yr Yes, you do. 1.) Poor - FALSE - more poor people per capita, but also a lot more rich people per capita. A minority of the residents are poor. Most are not. So obviously you can't call the "AREA AS A WHOLE" poor. 2.) Not many jobs - FALSE - Anyone who wants a job can get one in Eastern Kentucky. Anyone who doesn't work just doesn't want to or need to. 3.) Lower priority on education than other areas (as a whole - not individually) - FALSE, and preposterous. Check Pikeville Independent, Paintsville Independent, Hazard Independent (among others) test scores against schools in your area, you will be shocked, and not in a good way. 4.) Generations after generations of poverty - FALSE - sure it happens, but again, VERY small percentage, certainly nowhere close to resembling the region "AS A WHOLE." 5.) Waiting for someone to figure out how to fix the problem - FALSE, and preposterous, and not worthy of a response. Returning all the coal severance tax money that goes to Northern Kentucky would be one of my "fixes" though. 6.) Beautiful area of the state. Welllllll, you got one.:ylsuper: You lose credibility immediately when you say "a minority of the residents are poor" when I read data that shows the median income of many of the EKY counties to be not only the poorest in the state but, in some cases, the country. In 2005, there were 50 counties in the COUNTRY who had a median income of less than $30,000 - 15 of them were in KY. Secondly, you're kidding yourself if you think there are enough good jobs in EKY. Not true. Education: You fall right into the trap when you pull out exceptions to the rule when we're debating about an entire area. While I do not have a stat at my fingertips, I'm going to bet that kids going to college from EKY high schools are well below the state average.
July 19, 200719 yr You lose credibility immediately when you say "a minority of the residents are poor" when I read data that shows the median income of many of the EKY counties to be not only the poorest in the state but, in some cases, the country. Secondly, you're kidding yourself if you think there are enough good jobs in EKY. Not true. Education: You fall right into the trap when you pull out exceptions to the rule when we're debating about an entire area. While I do not have a stat at my fingertips, I'm going to bet that kids going to college from EKY high schools are well below the state average. In Pike County, the rate I saw was 21%. The highest according to Rock Mom's I think was 35%. Maybe you have a different definition of "minority". Secondly, I didn't say there were enough good jobs. I said anyone can get a job who wants/needs one. As I said in another thread, anyone who wants to get an education and work hard CAN get a GOOD job in Eastern Kentucky. In fact, in many cases, there is a shortage of applicants for GOOD jobs (doctors being one example). Education: I didn't fall into any trap. I gave three examples of good school systems, and there are many more out there, and even some very good schools in bad districts. JUST ABOUT EVERYONE who wants to go to college, goes. College isn't the only indicator either, you don't have to go to college to avoid poverty, although everyone should go to college. In Eastern Kentucky, plenty of coal miners didn't go to college and are making 50, 60k and up..
July 19, 200719 yr Sorry, but I have to disagree with you with #3. The schools you named are city/private schools. Not the area public and count schools that are in most counties. These city school systems have seperate school boards than the county school systems do and, unfortunately, all children aren't given the opportunity to receive the quality of education from a county school that they would receive from one of these city schools. Sorry, I disagree. There are too many good schools around to get stuck at a bad school. And not just city/private schools either...regardless, again, no one should settle for being stuck at a bad school...
July 19, 200719 yr In Pike County, the rate I saw was 21%. The highest according to Rock Mom's I think was 35%. Maybe you have a different definition of "minority". The word "poverty" is subjective. I prefer to use median family income as a measure. Owsley $20,300 Clay $22,100 Leslie $24,850 Martin $25,200 Wolfe $26,500 McCreary $26,700 Bell $27,250 Harlan $28,400 Knowing that you already know that the stat indicates that exactly half of the families in these counties are BELOW the listed number, I have very little doubt that you will agree that these counties qualify as being "poor." Why are we even debating the obvious?
July 19, 200719 yr Education: JUST ABOUT EVERYONE who wants to go to college, goes. C.. You don't see a problem with however you interpret that statement? Either a)you're incorrect or b)someone is not teaching these kids the economic value of a college degree. Hence, education is not enough of a priority OVERALL.
July 19, 200719 yr The word "poverty" is subjective. I prefer to use median family income as a measure. Owsley $20,300 Clay $22,100 Leslie $24,850 Martin $25,200 Wolfe $26,500 McCreary $26,700 Bell $27,250 Harlan $28,400 Knowing that you already know that the stat indicates that exactly half of the families in these counties are BELOW the listed number, I have very little doubt that you will agree that these counties qualify as being "poor." Why are we even debating the obvious? Because you can't seem to grasp that poor are a minority, by any measure, including yours...The 5 "poorest" counties in your list don't have the combined population of Pike County, which has 21% living in poverty...so lump those 5 in with Pike and you have a little more than a quarter of the population living in poverty, not a whole lot over the state average...again, almost everyone I know has a very good standard of living, and you are sitting several hours away on your computer telling me I'm wrong...and you thought farming was a problem...sorry...the area has some problems, but it's nothing close to what you perceive...but stereotypes are hard to overcome, especially when people don't want to hear any different.
July 19, 200719 yr I love it when people who are trying to put down an entire region don't know basic fourth grade terms. The irony just strikes me as, well...hilarious. Well, you seem to be under the false impression that you are (somehow) right. I'll just let you go ahead and believe that. But...yikes. :eek: :lol:
July 19, 200719 yr Because you can't seem to grasp that poor are a minority, by any measure, including yours...The 5 "poorest" counties in your list don't have the combined population of Pike County, which has 21% living in poverty...so lump those 5 in with Pike and you have a little more than a quarter of the population living in poverty, not a whole lot over the state average...again, almost everyone I know has a very good standard of living, and you are sitting several hours away on your computer telling me I'm wrong...and you thought farming was a problem...sorry...the area has some problems, but it's nothing close to what you perceive...but stereotypes are hard to overcome, especially when people don't want to hear any different. Pike County, your bell cow (do they use those on farms?), has a median income of $34k. That ranks about 87th in the Commonwealth. So , 50% of the people in one of the wealthiest counties in the EKY region are living on less than $34k for an entire family is not a problem? I'm not telling you you're wrong. The data is telling you. Again, I'm not talking about a subjective measure such as "poverty" but , rather, I am using a real dollar figure that people can grasp as either being high or low. So, your insistence on using words such as "stereotypes" and "ignorance" is puzzling.
July 19, 200719 yr You don't see a problem with however you interpret that statement? Either a)you're incorrect or b)someone is not teaching these kids the economic value of a college degree. Hence, education is not enough of a priority OVERALL. You "overlooked" this one, BRB.
July 19, 200719 yr Today you've already learned that farming is a negligible part of the economy of E. Ky... Baby steps... The only farming that I know of that produces any revenue in Eastern Kentucky, would be a very little bit of tobacco farming that is now almost vitually gone, and I would say that almost none of that particular crop was ever a significant part of the economy of the southeastern portion of Kentucky.
July 19, 200719 yr Pike County, your bell cow (do they use those on farms?), has a median income of $34k. That ranks about 87th in the Commonwealth. So , 50% of the people in one of the wealthiest counties in the EKY region are living on less than $34k for an entire family is not a problem? I'm not telling you you're wrong. The data is telling you. Again, I'm not talking about a subjective measure such as "poverty" but , rather, I am using a real dollar figure that people can grasp as either being high or low. So, your insistence on using words such as "stereotypes" and "ignorance" is puzzling. What part of 21% don't you understand? You tell me on the bell cow thing. A lot more farmers in your neck of the woods. The per-capita income of Pike County and Perry County is higher than the average of Madison, Mason, Grant, Harrison, Montgomery, Pendleton, and Gallatin Counties...are these chronically poor counties, waiting for someone to "fix" their problems, who don't pay attention to education, have generations after generations of families in poverty, with few jobs? If your answer is yes, what are all the smart folks there doing about their sad situation???
July 19, 200719 yr The only farming that I know of that produces any revenue in Eastern Kentucky, would be a very little bit of tobacco farming that is now almost vitually gone, and I would say that almost none of that particular crop was ever a significant part of the economy of the southeastern portion of Kentucky. Glad you're back firebird! I'm a tryin' to learn these city folk a thing or two... Well, gotta go...having a big shindig at the ol' cement pond.:jump:
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