July 19, 200719 yr You "overlooked" this one, BRB. By the way, the per-capita income in Boone and Campbell Counties is a whopping $500 a month more than strife-torn Pike County...with the cost of living being higher, the after-tax amount left over does not make for a richer, higher class of people who feel the need to worry about our problems here in Eastern Kentucky.:walk:
July 19, 200719 yr What part of 21% don't you understand? The per-capita income of Pike County and Perry County is higher than the average of Madison, Mason, Grant, Harrison, Montgomery, Pendleton, and Gallatin Counties... Your continued use of the the vague term "poverty" and the newly introduced "per capita" measure is vague and potentially misleading. There are some very wealthy people in Pikeville, for instance. Their super wealth distorts the view of the county as a whole if you use the "per capita" measure. That's why "median" gives a better picture. If Pike's median is $34k, that means that HALF of the population is living below that line. The relatively small percentage of coal mine owners, car dealership owners, bank owners, etc who draw a huge income will distort the view using "per capita." I'll give you a small example - not for you of course - but for others. The 8 batters in a baseball lineup have a per capita HR level of 16. By your logic the entire team is doing pretty well. However, when you look at the median of 10, the real picture is shown. One guy hits 55 while the others hit 5,10,10,10,15,20,55. Half the team is at 10 or below. Not quite as impressive and much more accurate to view the team as a whole. Now add in the astonishing low numbers in the other counties I listed and , unless you have your head stuck in the sand, you see where the inclination to say "yes, as a whole they are poor" comes from.
July 19, 200719 yr You lose credibility immediately when you say "a minority of the residents are poor" when I read data that shows the median income of many of the EKY counties to be not only the poorest in the state but, in some cases, the country. In 2005, there were 50 counties in the COUNTRY who had a median income of less than $30,000 - 15 of them were in KY. Secondly, you're kidding yourself if you think there are enough good jobs in EKY. Not true. Education: You fall right into the trap when you pull out exceptions to the rule when we're debating about an entire area. While I do not have a stat at my fingertips, I'm going to bet that kids going to college from EKY high schools are well below the state average. I dont mean to be a critical of you cchs81, but how could you or Rockmom possibly understand eastern Kentucky? As BRJB has tried to tell you, eastern Kentucky probably has more millionaires per capita than anywhere else in the state. About 30 years ago Pike County alone had more millionaries per capita than anyplace in the world. What you dont understand is that eastern Kentucky was ruined by a political figure some years ago that brought a dependent mentality to his constituants. The man spent what seemed to be like three lifetimes in the U.S. House of Representatives. His name was Carl D. Perkins. Perkins can be praised for helping to get our area alot of good and needful things, such as roads, hospitals, better schools, etc. He achieved many , many postives for our area. The down side to what he brought our area was also a dependent attitude towards government assistance. (West Virginia has there own version of Perkins in Robert C. Byrd, BTW.) As BRJB has mentioned a lot of the people in this area live exactly the way they want to live. It is now easier to just wait at the mailbox on the 3rd of the month than do go out and get a job. Again as BRJB has mentioned we are begging for people to work here. I am a private employer and my average worker makes anywhere from 35-40K a year and it is virtually impossible to get someone to show up for work. Yes , you will see a lot of trailers sitting on the hillsides , which most associate with poverty, BUT nobody seems to want to mention the brand new 4 wheel drive pickups, the SUV's, the new Ranger Bass boats, or the Honda Foremens that sit out in the driveways beside them. Priorities are what is distorted. To me, one of the very worst things that ever happened to eastern Kentucky came as a by-product of someone meaning to do well. As for education, Pikeville High School, Paintsville High School , and Johnson Central High School are some of the most academically affluent high schools in the state of Kentucky. Johnson County Middle School currently is in the middle of an academic dynasty with having now won 4 consecutive (5 total)Governors Cup Middle School competition state titles and numerous state runners up titles in the last 10 years. They have made a habit of kicking the proverbial hind ends of the Lexington and Louisville traditional magnet schools. The jobs are here if one wants to work and the schools are top notch if anyone wants to learn. What we dont need is more government subsidies to encourage laziness. What a great portion of our people need is a good dose of pride in themselves and a kick in the pants to become socially productive and not wait for someone to do everything for them, and most importantly the very last thing that we need is sympathy from those know it alls from the metropolitan areas of the state whose only knowledge of the area comes from a pie chart.
July 19, 200719 yr ^Bravo, firebird!!! Agree 100% on Carl D. too, right down to he meant well...perfect ending spot for me, as I cannot improve on that at all...thanks.
July 19, 200719 yr By the way, the per-capita income in Boone and Campbell Counties is a whopping $500 a month more than strife-torn Pike County...with the cost of living being higher, the after-tax amount left over does not make for a richer, higher class of people who feel the need to worry about our problems here in Eastern Kentucky.:walk: First, according to this site (hydrogen.pnl.gov/filedownloads/hydrogen/datasheets/median_income.xls) you're more than a little off. Boone County , Kenton County, and Campbel County all show a median family income of $64k. If you want to use the 2000 Census data, then Boone is at $53k while Pike was at $24k (nice to see things are getting better in Pike County).
July 20, 200719 yr ^I'm using 2005 data. I'll find the link for you. But keep digging... Edit...here you go... http://www.workforcekentucky.ky.gov/cgi/dataanalysis/?PAGEID=94 Click on "income".
July 20, 200719 yr I dont mean to be a critical of you cchs81, but how could you or Rockmom possibly understand eastern Kentucky? As BRJB has tried to tell you, eastern Kentucky probably has more millionaires per capita than anywhere else in the state. About 30 years ago Pike County alone had more millionaries per capita than anyplace in the world. You don't have to tell me. I know some of the rich folk in Pike County. They do VERY well. But , as I said earlier, per capita is a poor measure in and of itself (see above). W Yes , you will see a lot of trailers sitting on the hillsides , which most associate with poverty, BUT nobody seems to want to mention the brand new 4 wheel drive pickups, the SUV's, the new Ranger Bass boats, or the Honda Foremens that sit out in the driveways beside them. Priorities are what is distorted. I know or have met most of the car dealers in EKY and know they're selling vehicles. Unfortunately, for many the $25k average price tag on a new car is out of reach. As for education, Pikeville High School, Paintsville High School , and Johnson Central High School are some of the most academically affluent high schools in the state of Kentucky. Johnson County Middle School currently is in the middle of an academic dynasty with having now won 4 consecutive (5 total)Governors Cup Middle School competition State Titles and numerous state runners up titles in the last 10 years. They have made a habit of kicking the proverbial hind ends of the Lexington and Louisville traditional magnet schools. Great schools you mention and kudos for the awards they bring back home. However, just like the per capita measurement being misleading, these schools you mention do not seem to be the norm. The jobs are here if one wants to work and the schools are top notch if anyone wants to learn. What we dont need is more government subsidies to encourage laziness. What a great portion of our people need is a good dose of pride in themselves and a kick in the pants to become socially productive and not wait for someone to do everything for them, and most importantly the very last thing that we need is sympathy from those know it alls from the metropolitan areas of the state whose only knowledge of the area comes from a pie chart. I'll assume I'm in the "pie chart" group in your opinion ad that's fine. Ironic that its a generaliztion but fine nevertheless. Sincerely, congrats on your success in running a business day to day. Hopefully, you can inspire a few folks to do the same some day and have it snowball.
July 20, 200719 yr ^I'm using 2005 data. I'll find the link for you. But keep digging... Edit...here you go... http://www.workforcekentucky.ky.gov/cgi/dataanalysis/?PAGEID=94 Click on "income". I can't open that for some reason - maybe because I'm using Firefox as my browser. Here's the state data site that I used. http://ksdc.louisville.edu/1profiles_county.htm I find it hard to believe that the 2000 census shows the numbers I quoted and your 2005 data shows such a drastically lower figure.
July 20, 200719 yr I can't open that for some reason - maybe because I'm using Firefox as my browser. Here's the state data site that I used. http://ksdc.louisville.edu/1profiles_county.htm I find it hard to believe that the 2000 census shows the numbers I quoted and your 2005 data shows such a drastically lower figure. Try it again. I'm using Firefox also.
July 20, 200719 yr ^I'm using 2005 data. I'll find the link for you. But keep digging... Edit...here you go... http://www.workforcekentucky.ky.gov/cgi/dataanalysis/?PAGEID=94 Click on "income". Are you sure that's the right link? All I found was "per capita" income and it showed $30k for Boone and $23k for Pike.
July 20, 200719 yr Boone - 30,963 Campbell - 31,168 Pike - 23,673 I found that. Its per capita and its $7k apart. I thought you said something about $500 apart.???
July 20, 200719 yr I know or have met most of the car dealers in EKY and know they're selling vehicles. Unfortunately, for many the $25k average price tag on a new car is out of reach. You'll not catch most of the folks you are refering to caught dead in a $25,000 vehicle. What you'll see most of them in would be the "Denali" or the "Eddie Bauer" versions. They look better sitting beside those mobile homes. Great schools you mention and kudos for the awards they bring back home. However, just like the per capita measurement being misleading, these schools you mention do not seem to be the norm. It's really all quite simple. All you have to do is make your mind up that you intend on being nothing short of the best. Anybody can do that if they want to. Sincerely, congrats on your success in running a business day to day. Hopefully, you can inspire a few folks to do the same some day and have it snowball. Thank you, but again it's something that anyone can do if they dont care to get their hands dirty. I started with virtually nothing.
July 20, 200719 yr I found that. Its per capita and its $7k apart. I thought you said something about $500 apart.??? OK $583/month, before taxes and a higher cost of living...MAYBE a couple hundred a month cash in pocket. Regardless, my point is valid. A couple hundred dollars a month in the average family's pocketbook does not create a wealthier or superior class of people who should worry themselves with the problems of Eastern Kentucky...
July 20, 200719 yr OK, I grabbed some actual numbers. I went through fairly quickly and haphazardly and pulled out counties that I consider to be Eastern Kentucky. I've left a bunch out because I don't have every county memorized. Anyway, I believe these numbers evince the fact that poverty is real issue in Eastern Kentucky. Median Family Income 2006 NKY $64,000 Pike $34,000 Owsley $21,000 Jackson $28,000 Breathitt $28,000 Bell $28,000 Harlan $28,000 Knott $29,000 Leslie $25,000 McCreary $27,000 Magoffin $28,000 Martin $25,000 Wolfe $27,000 2004 Poverty Rates Boone 7.7% Campbell 10.9% Kenton 11.3% Pike 22.9% Owsley 35.5% Jackson 25.2% Breathitt 29.5% Bell 28.8% Harlan 29.3% Knott 27% Leslie 28.8% McCreary 30.1% Magoffin 30% Martin 30.5 % Wolfe 29.4% Unemployment Rate 2007 Boone 4.7% Campbell 4.9% Kenton 5.4% Pike 6.3% Owsley 10.7% Jackson 14% Breathitt 7.8% Bell 8.5% Harlan 8.2% Knott 7.0% Leslie 9.5% McCreary 10.3% Magoffin 11.8% Martin 8.2% Wolfe 11.5%
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