July 20, 200719 yr OK, I grabbed some actual numbers. I went through fairly quickly and haphazardly and pulled out counties that I consider to be Eastern Kentucky. I've left a bunch out because I don't have every county memorized. Anyway, I believe these numbers evince the fact that poverty is real issue in Eastern Kentucky. Median Family Income 2006 NKY $64,000 Pike $34,000 Owsley $21,000 Jackson $28,000 Breathitt $28,000 Bell $28,000 Harlan $28,000 Knott $29,000 Leslie $25,000 McCreary $27,000 Magoffin $28,000 Martin $25,000 Wolfe $27,000 2004 Poverty Rates Boone 7.7% Campbell 10.9% Kenton 11.3% Pike 22.9% Owsley 35.5% Jackson 25.2% Breathitt 29.5% Bell 28.8% Harlan 29.3% Knott 27% Leslie 28.8% McCreary 30.1% Magoffin 30% Martin 30.5 % Wolfe 29.4% Unemployment Rate 2007 Boone 4.7% Campbell 4.9% Kenton 5.4% Pike 6.3% Owsley 10.7% Jackson 14% Breathitt 7.8% Bell 8.5% Harlan 8.2% Knott 7.0% Leslie 9.5% McCreary 10.3% Magoffin 11.8% Martin 8.2% Wolfe 11.5% Apparently the only way that a lot of you guys can be part of this conversation is to pull up absolutely meaningless numbers. Again if you are not from the area and understand what is here and the mentality of the inhabitants, please dont get involved in this one.
July 20, 200719 yr Many years ago in EKY a man could get a job in the mining industry if he wanted to work, but there was nothing for women to do , Teach or work in a small store or maybe a restaurant. Now one must be fairly well educated to work in the mining industry and there are fewer jobs. But I do know of some who do not want to work, get a check and survive, for real!!
July 20, 200719 yr Apparently the only way that a lot of you guys can be part of this conversation is to pull up absolutely meaningless numbers. Again if you are not from the area and understand what is here and the mentality of the inhabitants, please dont get involved in this one. Meaningless numbers? So poverty is not a problem? Oh, and I'm from the area by the way, thanks.
July 20, 200719 yr Many years ago in EKY a man could get a job in the mining industry if he wanted to work, but there was nothing for women to do , Teach or work in a small store or maybe a restaurant. Now one must be fairly well educated to work in the mining industry and there are fewer jobs. But I do know of some who do not want to work, get a check and survive, for real!! Hospitals are getting on the radio and begging for doctors and nurses to come to work, offering sign on bonuses every day.
July 20, 200719 yr Meaningless numbers? So poverty is not a problem? Oh, and I'm from the area by the way, thanks. Yes they are meaningless when there is work, and no one will take the jobs that are available. The numbers you are so prouldly flashing around do not show the number of people that choose to live the way they do.
July 20, 200719 yr Yes they are meaningless when there is work, and no one will take the jobs that are available. The numbers you are so prouldly flashing around do not show the number of people that choose to live the way they do. Proudly? I'm curious, how did you come to the conclusion I was being contemptuous from what little I've said on the matter? So around 30% of the population in poverty isn't a problem because they choose to be that way?
July 20, 200719 yr Proudly? I'm curious, how did you come to the conclusion I was being contemptuous from what little I've said on the matter? So around 30% of the population in poverty isn't a problem because they choose to be that way? I guess maybe by your defensiveness.
July 20, 200719 yr OK, I grabbed some actual numbers. I went through fairly quickly and haphazardly and pulled out counties that I consider to be Eastern Kentucky. I've left a bunch out because I don't have every county memorized. Anyway, I believe these numbers evince the fact that poverty is real issue in Eastern Kentucky. Median Family Income 2006 NKY $64,000 Pike $34,000 Owsley $21,000 Jackson $28,000 Breathitt $28,000 Bell $28,000 Harlan $28,000 Knott $29,000 Leslie $25,000 McCreary $27,000 Magoffin $28,000 Martin $25,000 Wolfe $27,000 2004 Poverty Rates Boone 7.7% Campbell 10.9% Kenton 11.3% Pike 22.9% Owsley 35.5% Jackson 25.2% Breathitt 29.5% Bell 28.8% Harlan 29.3% Knott 27% Leslie 28.8% McCreary 30.1% Magoffin 30% Martin 30.5 % Wolfe 29.4% Unemployment Rate 2007 Boone 4.7% Campbell 4.9% Kenton 5.4% Pike 6.3% Owsley 10.7% Jackson 14% Breathitt 7.8% Bell 8.5% Harlan 8.2% Knott 7.0% Leslie 9.5% McCreary 10.3% Magoffin 11.8% Martin 8.2% Wolfe 11.5% Don't try using actual facts in this discussion. They won't be appreciated.
July 20, 200719 yr Sorry, I disagree. There are too many good schools around to get stuck at a bad school. And not just city/private schools either...regardless, again, no one should settle for being stuck at a bad school... There are alot of good schools in the area. But, not every parent has enough money to send their child to the opposite end of the county or to the next county over to get a high quality education. Which this goes on into the poverty issue and how it affects the education within the area. For example, there are places that I have to travel for work in Harlan, Letcher, and Perry counties that are VERy remote areas and it is a 30 or 45 minute drive to the next closest school. Buckhorn Schools for example. Now I don't know if they have a high quality of education within their elementary and high school ranks or not so in no way am I putting them down. But Buckhorn is located over 30 minutes from the Hazard City Schools and the AB Combs/Perry Central area. That is a long drive for a parent, who may not even own an automobile in the first place, to get their child to school. And since they don't live within that district, they aren't able to ride the school bus. So every child in Eastern KY deserves to right to gain a first class education, but, unfortunately that is not the case...
July 20, 200719 yr Don't try using actual facts in this discussion. They won't be appreciated. Maybe if some actual true facts were used then they might be. I take it you have never had anyone work for you quit or threaten to quit you because they are making too much money because the government is now going to take away their food stamps or raise their rents in government subsidzed housing facilites. Ask that you to pay them in cash so they can keep all of the govenment freebies. It gets down right frustrating seeing people capable of living better than you do by sitting at their mailboxes at home waiting on that first of the month check. Those are some of the very people that show up in those statistics that some of you are referring to as the gospel.
July 20, 200719 yr There are alot of good schools in the area. But, not every parent has enough money to send their child to the opposite end of the county or to the next county over to get a high quality education. Which this goes on into the poverty issue and how it affects the education within the area. For example, there are places that I have to travel for work in Harlan, Letcher, and Perry counties that are VERy remote areas and it is a 30 or 45 minute drive to the next closest school. Buckhorn Schools for example. Now I don't know if they have a high quality of education within their elementary and high school ranks or not so in no way am I putting them down. But Buckhorn is located over 30 minutes from the Hazard City Schools and the AB Combs/Perry Central area. That is a long drive for a parent, who may not even own an automobile in the first place, to get their child to school. And since they don't live within that district, they aren't able to ride the school bus. So every child in Eastern KY deserves to right to gain a first class education, but, unfortunately that is not the case...Again why is the fault of someone else that the school in their district may not be up to par? How is it always someone else's fault that a person has a dozen junk cars in their own front yard sitting up on blocks. Why is it always someone else's fault that someone else has enough garbage lying around their mobile homes to fill up a land fill? How about for one time someone taking first hand responsibility for living in the enviroment they subject themselves to?
July 20, 200719 yr From PBS FRONTLINE: country boys: readings: a short history of Kentucky/Central Appalachia Industrial Transformation (1870s-1920s) The mountains of eastern Kentucky were rich with natural resources: salt, coal and timber. Prior to 1870, only the salt mines of Floyd and Clay counties had been tapped with any real significance. Soon after the Civil War, agents from eastern corporations streamed into the mountains to secure extraction rights for the virgin hardwood forests and later for the vast beds of bituminous coal beneath them. Often a mountaineer could be easily persuaded by these speculators to sell the rights to mine his land or cut his timber for a few cents an acre -- a paltry sum compared to the wealth the company could extract from it, but enough money to provide a small-scale farmer with many luxuries. Extracting this irreplaceable wealth took its toll on the health of the land and its people while lining the pockets of the absentee industrialists. Many loggers lost their lives or were seriously maimed in accidents while felling the massive hardwoods or on the treacherous runs escorting the trunks down-river to market. Generations of miners were killed or disabled by dangerous methods used to extract the "black gold" from the coal seams running deep within the mountains. In the words of Appalachian historian Caudill: "Coal has always cursed the land in which it lies. When men begin to wrest it from the earth it leaves a legacy of foul streams, hideous slag heaps and polluted air. It peoples this transformed land with blind and crippled men and with widows and orphans. It is an extractive industry which takes all away and restores nothing. It mars but never beautifies. It corrupts but never purifies." Often, these eastern companies bought only the "dominant" timber or mineral rights -- not the "subordinate" land rights -- and so in many cases it was the local landowner who paid the property taxes, while the coal and timber companies waited for the railroads to finally infiltrate the isolated hollows and cart away their vast wealth. By 1910, a majority of the land in the Cumberland Plateau was owned outright by non-residents; non-residents also owned about three-fourths of the timber rights and 85 percent of the mineral rights. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/countryboys/readings/appalachia.html
July 20, 200719 yr Author I am amazed at what this thread has become. I intended to give an honest evaluation of the difficulties faced by the residents of Eastern Kentucky and then to foster discussion on various ways it could improve. I knew we were thought of as hillbillies but I was not aware of the extent. I feel guilty now for bringing our problems out into the open and feel that I have contributed to the stereotypical view that I now realize the rest of the state has of us. I apologize.
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