Wrong. Last year you mentioned starting pitching 345,749 times. They spent money to lock up Arroyo and Harang. They brought up Bailey to go through his growing pains. Belisle and Lohse are your typical 4th and 5th starters. Above average stuff, but inconsistent. If fixing the pen was easy, you wouldn't see so many bad one across the game. That's where the failure this season falls. No more, no less...

I also stated, time will tell regarding Arroyo....As for Bailey, you can go back and see my 25,443 times, I suggested he not come up yet but since they did, he needs 4-5 starts to see.

 

Lohse is what 4-10, if that is typical of a MLB starter, than no wonder the Reds are where they are at.

 

What the Twins did, took nearly 10 years or so....Krivksy may be admired by some but I don't see the logic, of his moves last year and it's showing, this year.

 

The failure, is the talent, pure and simple....Who brings in the talent and retains it, is my question. The Reds acquire players no one else wants, then the argument follows, they can't trade for anyone, because they have no player, another team wants....That speaks volumes of this GM and the lack of direction.

The failure, is the talent, pure and simple....Who brings in the talent and retains it, is my question. The Reds acquire players no one else wants, then the argument follows, they can't trade for anyone, because they have no player, another team wants....That speaks volumes of this GM and the lack of direction.

So why are there trade rumors surrounding Dunn, Junior, Weathers, Hatte, Conine, Lohse and Arroyo? That's about 1/3 of the roster. But keep spinning...

I think locking up Arroyo was a mistake. He had a Jack Armstrong year and we all know how that ended up.

 

If they can move him, move him. I think the only Reds you will see gone by season's end are Conine, Arroyo, Stanton, Castro, Moeller, and maybe Gonzalez.

 

They are in a tough spot. The vets aren't producing and the rookies aren't ready.

 

I just can't see the new manager as a long term solution. I can see two reasons for naming him.

 

1.) Castellini will keep him for the rest of the year to get his input on how they should keep and who should go. Then take those suggestions into the postseason when they clean house and name a new manager.

 

2.) He was doing such a poor job of advance scouting that they want to move him elsewhere in the organization and get a new scout team in place. Then bump him elsewhere in the organization.

 

I honestly think they view this guy as the long term answer at manager. He could turn out to be a Charlie Manual or he could be another Dave Miley. I'm sure there is a whole lot of head scratching going on in the Queen City.

Let's take a look.

 

There were some questionable moves at the end of last season, but think about WHY it happened. They were in contention and had one weak link. Wayne went out and did all he could to patch up the pen, but it wasn't enough. It would be fun to watch blowing the whole thing up again after giving Krivsky 16 months on the job. I'll be a Reds fan either way. Why not add another 5 years of misery...

Then what has Krivksy done, to get this team better since his arrival....

 

The were in contention in '06, for the simple reason the Division was woeful and fluttering around .500. Any decent record, would have been a 15 game lead and the Reds, out again.

 

If the Reds fan base, is content with the ongoings....I would be shocked. Someone must be held accountable and Narron was, so he's gone. Where are we at now, same lack of talent, same pitching woes, same middle relief pitching problems, that was apparent in '06....Players must bear that burden but Management, is accountable for this talent wearing the uniform.

The failure, is the talent, pure and simple....Who brings in the talent and retains it, is my question. The Reds acquire players no one else wants, then the argument follows, they can't trade for anyone, because they have no player, another team wants....That speaks volumes of this GM and the lack of direction.

Players that are starters for the Reds are sought as role players and backups for other teams. That speaks volumes. With the exception of Griffey and maybe Dunn, anyone the Reds trade isn't going to fetch much more that a fungo bat and a light-hitting infielder.

Let's take a look.

 

Starting pitching. Better.

Catcher. Same production, less cash.

1st. Same production, less cash.

2nd. Clearly better.

3rd. Clearly better. Brandon Larson anyone?

SS. Upgrade in talent, but having an off season.

LF. Same guy.

CF. Better.

RF. Junior or Kearns? Easy answer.

Bullpen. Bad when Krivsky got here, and still bad now.

Bench. Bad when Krivsky got here, and still bad now

Minors. Leaps and bounds better than the Bowden era. Some of it was Dan O and some of it is Wayne.

 

There were some questionable moves at the end of last season, but think about WHY it happened. They were in contention and had one weak link. Wayne went out and did all he could to patch up the pen, but it wasn't enough. It would be fun to watch blowing the whole thing up again after giving Krivsky 16 months on the job. I'll be a Reds fan either way. Why not add another 5 years of misery...

It took Minn 7 years to produce a winner with the model the Reds supposedly have inplace, right. Krivsky was hired with the plan of mirroring that model right? He was the 2nd man in charge there right? So we should actually expect 5 1/2 years before a winner right? Not acceptable, right?

It took Minn 7 years to produce a winner with the model the Reds supposedly have inplace, right. Krivsky was hired with the plan of mirroring that model right? He was the 2nd man in charge there right? So we should actually expect 5 1/2 years before a winner right? Not acceptable, right?

If it takes 7 years to get to the point we compete for a division title EVERY year then so be it. Always going for the quick fix keeps you in a toilet bowl of despair. Count on it...

Then what has Krivksy done, to get this team better since his arrival....

 

The were in contention in '06, for the simple reason the Division was woeful and fluttering around .500. Any decent record, would have been a 15 game lead and the Reds, out again.

 

If the Reds fan base, is content with the ongoings....I would be shocked. Someone must be held accountable and Narron was, so he's gone. Where are we at now, same lack of talent, same pitching woes, same middle relief pitching problems, that was apparent in '06....Players must bear that burden but Management, is accountable for this talent wearing the uniform.

:thumb: You're preaching to the choir. Well close.

If it takes 7 years to get to the point we compete for a division title EVERY year then so be it. Always going for the quick fix keeps you in a toilet bowl of despair. Count on it...

There are better ways. Krivsky is not the guy to get it done. Eventually you'll come around, just like with Narron:D

Players that are starters for the Reds are sought as role players and backups for other teams. That speaks volumes. With the exception of Griffey and maybe Dunn, anyone the Reds trade isn't going to fetch much more that a fungo bat and a light-hitting infielder.

I agree and yet, some think they are good.

 

So why are there trade rumors surrounding Dunn, Junior, Weathers, Hatte, Conine, Lohse and Arroyo? That's about 1/3 of the roster. But keep spinning...

Dunn....I wouldn't want to stay, where I'm chastised either. Junior....trying to get some potential talent. Weathers, Hatte, Conine....just because someone is wanting to trade, doesn't mean the return is good. Hatteberg, is a player I could see the Reds keeping but the other two, may be out of MLB in 2 years.

 

Arroyo, has perhaps the best stuff in MLB but relies on his offspeed too much. If he can correct, can be effective but until then....Lohse, is 4-11 or so....who wants him.

 

I evaluate talent differently, based off what they can do and not that a team, who is in the cellar of another Division, may want a player the Reds have.

 

You can't hide talent and you sure can't cover up, the lack of either. The Reds management, GM and some others, keep trying to sell this team as good, but fans know better.

There are better ways. Krivsky is not the guy to get it done. Eventually you'll come around, just like with Narron:D

 

Would you rather have a guy that pulls the trigger on a bad trade? Geez! Krivsky shopped in the offseason and didn't see anything that would benefit the organization. He even stated that in the press conference yesterday. Something along the lines of, "I wish I could've helped bring some more talent in but I couldn't find the right fit."

 

IMO, another part of the bad fans in the Cincinnati area. It's a no win...

 

Scenario 1: Trade for some mid-level talent that doesn't work out because they are just that...mid-level.

 

Result: Fans complain that the organization can't judge talent and continue to overpay for mid-level talent. They think the organization has a horrible 'plan'.

 

Scenario 2: Shop around and when mid-level talent is offered to you, decline it because you already have mid-level talent and you don't want to make changes just to make changes.

 

Result: Fans complain that the organization hasn't made any changes and they don't have a true 'plan'.

 

Just my take. I'm still a Krivsky fan at this point...

If Castellini and Krivsky want to save some face, then now is the perfect time to let everyone know their 'plan'. Castellini has referred to this 'plan' since day 1, but has never explained it. With the season in the tank, and we all know it, including the players, why not announce the 'plan' now?

Would you rather have a guy that pulls the trigger on a bad trade? Geez! Krivsky shopped in the offseason and didn't see anything that would benefit the organization. He even stated that in the press conference yesterday. Something along the lines of, "I wish I could've helped bring some more talent in but I couldn't find the right fit."

 

IMO, another part of the bad fans in the Cincinnati area. It's a no win...

 

Scenario 1: Trade for some mid-level talent that doesn't work out because they are just that...mid-level.

 

Result: Fans complain that the organization can't judge talent and continue to overpay for mid-level talent. They think the organization has a horrible 'plan'.

 

Scenario 2: Shop around and when mid-level talent is offered to you, decline it because you already have mid-level talent and you don't want to make changes just to make changes.

 

Result: Fans complain that the organization hasn't made any changes and they don't have a true 'plan'.

 

Just my take. I'm still a Krivsky fan at this point...

:ylsuper: :ylsuper:

If Castellini and Krivsky want to save some face, then now is the perfect time to let everyone know their 'plan'. Castellini has referred to this 'plan' since day 1, but has never explained it. With the season in the tank, and we all know it, including the players, why not announce the 'plan' now?

 

Another no win situation...

 

Scrutinize the 'plan' which people will hold you to once announced or keep the 'plan' in the organization and be scrutinized because you haven't explained it...

Another no win situation...

 

Scrutinize the 'plan' which people will hold you to once announced or keep the 'plan' in the organization and be scrutinized because you haven't explained it...

 

 

Is there really ever a win-win situation in professional sports?