May 30, 200719 yr If you look around at your enviroment, world and space, how can one deny that their is a creator. The thing that I don't understand is that with anything in the scientific world, a fact has to be proven. Evolution is a theory that has never been proven. Therefore one has to conclude that there may be an alternative. To see how our body works, how the position of the earth has to be just in the right location- believing that is by chance takes a bigger leap of faith than believing in a Supreme Being. Then if you have to have faith to believe that where is the science? For the sake of argument, couldn't you also, in the same way, say that since the existance of God has never been proven that there must be an alternative?
May 30, 200719 yr Tru blue If evolution and Big Bang are seperate then what is your origin? If you are talking about my universe, then 14 billion years ago. If you are talking about my planet, then 4.6 billion years ago. If you are talking about me personally, 33 years, 4 months, 11 days ago.
May 30, 200719 yr Author This article fits well within this discussion: 15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense this article fits well here also: http://www.allaboutcreation.org/evolution-vs-creation.htm
May 30, 200719 yr Please refer to post 128. Once again, you are entitled to believe what you wish. However, many credible and reliable scientists have refutted and turned away from the teachings of Darwin. In the same manner, many credible and reliable scientists still believe in evolution. In addition, one can still believe in evolution, but differ on Darwin's take on it. Sorry for all of the posts in a row...I have been busy. Had to teach a little more science today.
May 30, 200719 yr Author If you are talking about my universe, then 14 billion years ago. If you are talking about my planet, then 4.6 billion years ago. If you are talking about me personally, 33 years, 4 months, 11 days ago. Almost the exact same age as Jesus when He was crucified!
May 30, 200719 yr A degree in biology does not mean that they have the truth. The Bible is the final authority. NO, NO, NO - God is the final authority - that statement comes very close to idolatry. We are not to worship the Bible we are to worship God, and if we make IT infallible we fall into the trap of Bibliolatry. (From the newreformation.org website) Bibliolatry -- Bible Worship One of the fundamental principles of Christianity is that nothing is sacred. No thing. No part of creation is God. God is separate from the creation. Creation is only to be respected (made holy) as the handiwork of our God. It is never to be worshiped. This is why western civilization holds nothing sacred. Not king, not country, not flag, not clergy. This is the basis of our freedoms. The first ammendment rights are based on this idea. This is where the founding fathers got this stuff. Fundamentalist evangelicals violate this basic principle every time the put the printed Bible ahead of God, ahead of Christ, or ahead of the Holy Spirit. The belief in the infallability of the printed Bible may be the worst heresy to affect the church today. It is frequently argued that we must hold on to inerrancy because if we permit anyone to question any part of the Bible, the whole thing is lost. We will have no solid foundation to return to for answers in matters of faith. It is argued that unless we have an indisputable source of truth to return to, Christianity will be reduced to a matter of opinion. But I always thought that Christians came to an understanding of the truth through much prayer, study, and by being informed of the Spirit. I didn't know we could just look up the answers to all the hard questions. In fact there are numerous examples of Biblical passages which simply must be reinterpreted to apply to modern times (see examples in the section on Moral Legalism) Of course the Bible is true. Of course it is the inspired word of God, but inerrancy is a red herring. Even if one grants inerrancy, it solves nothing. We still must rely on study and prayer, informed by the Spirit, to know the truth. Who's interpretation of the inerrant Word should we accept. For example, there are multiple views of the position of women in the church. One interpreter, (well known author and lecturer Mardi Keyes), who believes in inerrancy, reads the gospels and sees Jesus willingness to discuss matters of theology with women (John 4:5-32), and his encouragement of women to sit and learn with the men (Luke 10:38-42), as elevating women to be equal to men. In the context of a first century middle eastern culture these and other seemingly small incidents certainly do represent a radical change in the role of women, given the view that women were mere chattel (property), which was the norm in Jesus day. Other interpreters, who also believe in inerrancy, see only the passage where Paul says women should be silent in church (1 Timothy 2:12). Who's interpretation should we believe? If holding to the position of inerrancy doesn't give us firm answers to hard questions, why do denominational leaders put such great importance on it. Only this: the inerrancy message is a thinly disguised version of "you may not disagree with me." The issue is power, control, and the right to dictate who may do what and when; to tell other Christians what they may and may not believe. This is so foreign to the message of Christ, that it should shock all true Christians. As the old hymn says, "the Church's one foundation is Jesus Christ her Lord." The Bible is our primary source for knowledge about Christ, but it is not our foundation.
May 30, 200719 yr Almost the exact same age as Jesus when He was crucified! It must be a sign! :laugh:
May 30, 200719 yr Acemona The Bible is Gods own word to us. It cannot be wrong. If it is we might as well quit worshipping God because if one part is not true, then all is not true. There is no gray area. Either He is all right or all wrong. The problem is when we as humans try to fit the Bible into our lives instead of fitting our lives in the Bible. I know its interesting to see other view points, but this is more than life and death. We are talking about eternity here.
May 30, 200719 yr Acemona The Bible is Gods own word to us. It cannot be wrong. If it is we might as well quit worshipping God because if one part is not true, then all is not true. There is no gray area. Either He is all right or all wrong. The problem is when we as humans try to fit the Bible into our lives instead of fitting our lives in the Bible. I know its interesting to see other view points, but this is more than life and death. We are talking about eternity here. I can believe it is true without believing it is inerrant. As I have said in another thread - The stories that Aesop gave us were all true, but none of them actually happened. Native Americans used to begin their oral history stories in this way . . . "It may not have happened exactly like this, but this story is true . . ." Did you read the article? especially this paragraph . . . Of course the Bible is true. Of course it is the inspired word of God, but inerrancy is a red herring. Even if one grants inerrancy, it solves nothing. We still must rely on study and prayer, informed by the Spirit, to know the truth. Who's interpretation of the inerrant Word should we accept. For example, there are multiple views of the position of women in the church. One interpreter, (well known author and lecturer Mardi Keyes), who believes in inerrancy, reads the gospels and sees Jesus willingness to discuss matters of theology with women (John 4:5-32), and his encouragement of women to sit and learn with the men (Luke 10:38-42), as elevating women to be equal to men. In the context of a first century middle eastern culture these and other seemingly small incidents certainly do represent a radical change in the role of women, given the view that women were mere chattel (property), which was the norm in Jesus day. Other interpreters, who also believe in inerrancy, see only the passage where Paul says women should be silent in church (1 Timothy 2:12). Who's interpretation should we believe?
May 30, 200719 yr Author Since this thread has been discussed I've searched info on the web pro vs. con and I cannot find any information either way that is factual and irrefutable. So, without something tangible, I will remain in the creation corner. I've read many of the pro-evolution sites including the one given by Jim Schue and although well thought out, it is nothing more than opinion. The facts that are referred to are never produced, no links to the physical/tangible. (I would use a dry "missing links" joke here, but that would be silly)
May 30, 200719 yr I hope my post didn't leave the impression that I was imposing my beliefs on you (or anyone else). Nor was I trying to imply that anyone who disagrees with me is wrong or condemned. I won't do that and I don't think that is our place. It is God's sovereign territory to provide that path and it is up to each of us to seek it for ourselves. There are many routes to the same destination and what may be right for me may not be right for someone else. So forgive me if I came across as an elitist, it wasn't intentional. :thumb: I didn't think that at all. Actually, I was trying to agree with you. Guess I just didn't pull it off too well.
May 30, 200719 yr However, many credible and reliable scientists have refutted and turned away from the teachings of Darwin.Not a single one. But as you say, we'll just have to believe what we wish.
May 30, 200719 yr This is starting to get to the core of one's beliefs. I am glad we are getting there b/c it is the crux of one's future. According to Revelation 22:18-19 what is in the Bible is all true or not. I understand some may argue different points of view, as we are humans. We cannot take some of the Bible and leave some out. What it boils down to is do we believe by FAITH what the word says. We ALL at some point will believe. Those who choose now will be with God in eternity. Those who face God at the Judgement seat of Christ will believe then, but it will be to late to ask Jesus to be your Saviour then. For those of you who know scripture don't be like the rich man in the Lazarus teaching(Luke 16:19)
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