I don't want to see any more discussion about the "soldiers are thug" thread. That was closed the other day for a reason.

Sometimes I feel like Dubya and I are the only optimists alive. It seems that everyone else has already written off Iraq. While I believe Iraq is a difficult problem, I most emphatically do not believe it is a lost cause.

Sometimes I feel like Dubya and I are the only optimists alive. It seems that everyone else has already written off Iraq. While I believe Iraq is a difficult problem, I most emphatically do not believe it is a lost cause.

 

I truly don't know how optimistic W is about Iraq. I don't know what our goals are for the country. Is it to just have a democratic country? Is it for all Iraqis to coexists peacefully? I believe this can be obtained to some extent. Will it ever be as free as the united states? I doubt that. However there have been a great deal of organazation among terrorist. They have plotted and killed many Americans. But they were not civilians for the most part and it didn't happen on US soil. That is the greatest goal of this war in my book. Meet them on common ground (really its more of their back yard) and keep our house from getting wrecked in the process.

Sometimes I feel like Dubya and I are the only optimists alive. It seems that everyone else has already written off Iraq. While I believe Iraq is a difficult problem, I most emphatically do not believe it is a lost cause.

Nor do I.

 

I sincerely believe that the left is so intent on destroying President Bush that they don't care what the cost, they will do it. The left is perfectly willing to accept complete defeat in Iraq in order to make President Bush look bad. They IMVHO are putting politics ahead of the countries best interests.

 

My problems with the Iraq situatuation is not that we went in but that we didn't go in hard enough. We didn't seal the borders to prevent all of the animals from surrounding countries from coming in. We have worried to much about being "civil" while the animals we are fighting think nothing of using innocents as humas shields. They also use mosques as headquarters and armories and then object when we target those places and the left here takes their side.

 

I am also of the opinion that if we pull out of Iraq now it is only a matter of time before something happens here because we will have enboldened the animals and shown that we don't have the "intestinal fortitude" to do what it takes to wipe them off of the planet.

Nor do I.

 

I sincerely believe that the left is so intent on destroying President Bush that they don't care what the cost, they will do it. The left is perfectly willing to accept complete defeat in Iraq in order to make President Bush look bad. They IMVHO are putting politics ahead of the countries best interests.

 

My problems with the Iraq situatuation is not that we went in but that we didn't go in hard enough. We didn't seal the borders to prevent all of the animals from surrounding countries from coming in. We have worried to much about being "civil" while the animals we are fighting think nothing of using innocents as humas shields. They also use mosques as headquarters and armories and then object when we target those places and the left here takes their side.

 

I am also of the opinion that if we pull out of Iraq now it is only a matter of time before something happens here because we will have enboldened the animals and shown that we don't have the "intestinal fortitude" to do what it takes to wipe them off of the planet.

 

For the record, I'm not "the left". I quite emphatically stated my objections to going into Iraq before we went there. I felt, and still feel, that Iraq was a political move on Bush's part. While some may be using the current call for withdrawal a political move, I can assure you that there are many of us who don't care about the politics. It was a mistake that should never have happened....and my reasons have absolutely nothing to do with my politics.

 

I know what you'll call me...a pacifist. But your comment about us "embolding the animals and showing them that we don't have the 'intestinal fortitude' to do what it takes to wipe them off the planet" simply solidifies my feelings that a lot of people will do whatever it takes to "save face"....even if there's no good reason for the fight. Seeing comments like that make me think of bullies in a schoolyard. Is that the only reason to stay? Is there no higher purpose than to not be seen as "weak"?

Nor do I.

 

I sincerely believe that the left is so intent on destroying President Bush that they don't care what the cost, they will do it. The left is perfectly willing to accept complete defeat in Iraq in order to make President Bush look bad. They IMVHO are putting politics ahead of the countries best interests.

 

My problems with the Iraq situatuation is not that we went in but that we didn't go in hard enough. We didn't seal the borders to prevent all of the animals from surrounding countries from coming in. We have worried to much about being "civil" while the animals we are fighting think nothing of using innocents as humas shields. They also use mosques as headquarters and armories and then object when we target those places and the left here takes their side.

 

I am also of the opinion that if we pull out of Iraq now it is only a matter of time before something happens here because we will have enboldened the animals and shown that we don't have the "intestinal fortitude" to do what it takes to wipe them off of the planet.

 

 

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

I truly don't know how optimistic W is about Iraq. I don't know what our goals are for the country. Is it to just have a democratic country? Is it for all Iraqis to coexists peacefully? I believe this can be obtained to some extent. Will it ever be as free as the united states? I doubt that. However there have been a great deal of organazation among terrorist. They have plotted and killed many Americans. But they were not civilians for the most part and it didn't happen on US soil. That is the greatest goal of this war in my book. Meet them on common ground (really its more of their back yard) and keep our house from getting wrecked in the process.

 

I am so sick and tired of the old "we are fighting them there so we don't have to fight them over here." For the 100th time, how are they going to follow us over here? They have no Air Force. They have no Navy. We have strengthened our homeland security to prevent suprise attacks. Don't know about anyone else, but I sure as heck don't worry about being attacked by an Iraqi in the United States. I think I have o better chance of winning the lottery.

I don't know what our goals are for the country. Is it to just have a democratic country?

 

I have been asking myself the same thing.

For the record, I'm not "the left". I quite emphatically stated my objections to going into Iraq before we went there. I felt, and still feel, that Iraq was a political move on Bush's part. While some may be using the current call for withdrawal a political move, I can assure you that there are many of us who don't care about the politics. It was a mistake that should never have happened....and my reasons have absolutely nothing to do with my politics.

 

I know what you'll call me...a pacifist. But your comment about us "embolding the animals and showing them that we don't have the 'intestinal fortitude' to do what it takes to wipe them off the planet" simply solidifies my feelings that a lot of people will do whatever it takes to "save face"....even if there's no good reason for the fight. Seeing comments like that make me think of bullies in a schoolyard. Is that the only reason to stay? Is there no higher purpose than to not be seen as "weak"?

I have and continue to value your opinion because of the way you express yourself.

 

I personally don't think it was a mistake going into Iraq, rather it was a mistake to think that after Saddam fell it would be over. President Bush and his advisors did a poor job of planning for what would happen after Saddam. As it stands right or wrong we are there. If we leave now we will see a slaughter on the scale of Cambodia.

 

I also believe that if we leave now it will be taken as a sign of weakness and that it will make the extremeists more likely to attack our interests here and abroad. If that means I have the mentality of a schoolyard bully then so be it.

This is a continuation of a thought I had about my last post.

 

I can't help but to think back to Carter and the whole Iran hostage mess. While I know that other factors hurt Carter and helped lead to his defeat I have to wonder if there weren't militant Islamists watching that as well as watching Carter's presidency go down the tubes and thinking they brought down the American President. I have to wonder if those same people aren't watching this with the same thoughts.

This is a continuation of a thought I had about my last post.

 

I can't help but to think back to Carter and the whole Iran hostage mess. While I know that other factors hurt Carter and helped lead to his defeat I have to wonder if there weren't militant Islamists watching that as well as watching Carter's presidency go down the tubes and thinking they brought down the American President. I have to wonder if those same people aren't watching this with the same thoughts.

 

The economy hurt Carter a lot more than the Iran hostage fiasco. It was just the icing on the cake for him.

I said there were other factors BUT I still believe that his handleing of that has had an impact on the way middle Eatern radicals veiw us.

I am so sick and tired of the old "we are fighting them there so we don't have to fight them over here." For the 100th time, how are they going to follow us over here? They have no Air Force. They have no Navy. We have strengthened our homeland security to prevent suprise attacks. Don't know about anyone else, but I sure as heck don't worry about being attacked by an Iraqi in the United States. I think I have o better chance of winning the lottery.

I think you're missing their point. There not talking about Iraqis, there talking about insurgents IMO. Tell me you don't think they can get in this country.

We will see more attacks in this country, I really believe that. I'm sure we'll see both large and small scale attacks, from 9-11 type (maybe not as large a scale as that) to suicide bombings in restaurants, clubs and such.

It amazes me that there are still people who agree with the original decision to invade Iraq. Four years, thousands of lives, hundreds of billions of dollars later and we have a broken state, a sectarian civil war, and a terrorist training ground of our own making for our trouble. Not to mention an unconstrained problem next door called Iran. And no plan other than to try to hold this hornets nest indefinitely with our worn out, weary military. There are even a few who freely acknowledge that we have created a situation where we cannot leave (can't embolden the extremists you know), yet still support the decision to invade. I have to think that these are folks who, like their president, simply cannot admit a mistake. There can be no other explanation. We have nothing to show for our thousands of dead and wounded and our untold billions other than a grisly video of a pathetic man being hung and our greatly diminished standing in the world. We had an opportunity to take away the terrorist haven in Afghanistan and to bring those who planned the 9/11 attack to justice. We not only blew it, but this president has hung a huge millstone around the necks of generations of Americans.

I think you're missing their point. There not talking about Iraqis, there talking about insurgents IMO. Tell me you don't think they can get in this country.

We will see more attacks in this country, I really believe that. I'm sure we'll see both large and small scale attacks, from 9-11 type (maybe not as large a scale as that) to suicide bombings in restaurants, clubs and such.

 

No....I really don't worry about it. If it is a concern though, take about 100,000 of the troops, ( especially the reserves) and put them on the northern and southern borders, scatter a few in the ports and spend some of the additional 200 Billion that we are about to spend in Iraq for high tech security to aid the border security. The only reason we are not leaving is because now that we have installed the Shiite government, Saudi Araba is in danger and will not let us leave and hold high oil prices over our heads.

We better get moving on Bio Fules or we will be their slaves forever.