February 14, 200719 yr This will solve it: You're right. I'm wrong. I think I need to make that my signature line in this forum. What is that old lawyer axiom... if you don't have facts argue the.... I was just pointing out a truism. As would you if the roles were reversed.:lol:
February 14, 200719 yr The only thing I have said on UK in the FF is I have yet to see any consistency that leads me to believe they have a shot. You harped on the D as HOW they could get there without making a prediction and putting your word on the line (as usual). I'll stick to my stance. Inconsistency in every phase is not a recipe for a four game Dance win streak... Ive said that UK would be a Sweet 16 team. After that I believe we could go further, but its going to be tough. Hey, theres no way of really predicting what will happen. I would be willing to bet that at this time last year no one, who wasnt a fan of 1 of the teams had any of those Final 4 teams in their top 4.
February 14, 200719 yr Well Jay you have successfully dodged my questions about the reason for not taking Lofton. Ill take it you read them and understand now. What were your reasons? The kid was the best player in KY and had something many of Tubby's players such as Carruth, Fitch, Rondo, etc. have lacked a strong work ethic and some much needed character. There is no reason for him not to be in the Blue and White. You will have all your excuses just like your excuses for why the program has declined. You think Lee Humphrey was highly recruited? Once you figure UK is considered lazy in recruiting circles maybe you can realize why UK is no longer a Top 5 college basketball program.
February 14, 200719 yr This has been my point for years. I never thought I'd hear UK basketball fans talking up stats and writing losses off to parity. Big Blue goggle wearers have come to that my man. Cat fans who live in reality want a change.
February 14, 200719 yr What were your reasons? The kid was the best player in KY and had something many of Tubby's players such as Carruth, Fitch, Rondo, etc. have lacked a strong work ethic and some much needed character. There is no reason for him not to be in the Blue and White. You will have all your excuses just like your excuses for why the program has declined. You think Lee Humphrey was highly recruited? Once you figure UK is considered lazy in recruiting circles maybe you can realize why UK is no longer a Top 5 college basketball program. Really I had no idea. I am one of the most rational UK fans on this message board.
February 14, 200719 yr Really I had no idea. I am one of the most rational UK fans on this message board. I wonder what % we rational UK fans make up??? 19% maybe...
February 14, 200719 yr I wonder what % we rational UK fans make up??? 19% maybe... You are not rational. You just accept mediocrity from what was the best program in the country. I would say you guys were like Gaylord Fokker's parents happy with 5th thru 7th place ribbons.
February 14, 200719 yr You are not rational. You just accept mediocrity from what was the best program in the country. I would say you guys were like Gaylord Fokker's parents happy with 5th thru 7th place ribbons. I am extremely rational. I have been a season ticket holder for 20 years. My expectation is to be amongst the top ten every season and competing for a national championship. I do realize though that there are going to be years where UK does not meet that expectation. Unlike the others I do not go off the deep end and claim the sky is falling after every loss. Unlike the others I consider the 2005 season a success (28-6) even though we lost to Michigan State in the regional final. Unlike others I consider the 2004 season a success (27-5) even though we ran into a buzz saw in UAB. Unlike others I consider the 2003 season a success (32-4; 16-0 in the SEC) even though we lost in the regional final to Marquette. Last season was the first season I thought was a disappointment in the last 5 years. It remains to be seen if this season will be a success or not. We shall see. The seasons mentioned are hardly, to use your term, Gaylord Fockeresque or anything approaching mediocrity... A coach who wins 77% of the games his team plays in is far from mediocre...
February 14, 200719 yr A coach who wins 77% of the games his team plays in is far from mediocre... You know, it's like graduation rates...nice, warm and fuzzy...but nobody really cares....if you're honest with yourself, you'd rather see a national championship that all players graduate. Same with this 77% winning percentage...nice warm and fuzzy, but can't get to a Final Four the past eight years...and this year will make nine. Long drought for the winningest program in the land.
February 14, 200719 yr You know, it's like graduation rates...nice, warm and fuzzy...but nobody really cares....if you're honest with yourself, you'd rather see a national championship that all players graduate. Same with this 77% winning percentage...nice warm and fuzzy, but can't get to a Final Four the past eight years...and this year will make nine. Long drought for the winningest program in the land. I posted something similar in another UK thread with the same concept as this one but will repeat it here. If Tubby had had the past 5-6 years, including this one, like Duke has had, you guys wouldn't be happy either. Duke has consistently had teams that were a #1 seed and/or fought for the #1 ranking throughout the year. They have recruited and HAD top 5 recruiting classes, of which you claim as a major default of Tubby's. And yet, during that time despite having the best teams and the best players, they have 3 Sweet 16 appearances and one final four appearance. No championship game appearance. Only one final four despite winning more games during that time span than any other team in the nation. Those of you would be calling for Tubby's head because he can't win in the tournament. Despite winning a national title every 3 years and making runs to the Final 4 in the off years and for SOME OF YOU, changing things he can't change, YOU WILL NOT BE HAPPY. You expectations are unrealistic. And don't give me the Final 4 expectation because if he had done that you would be screaming about a national title. You want to rail about lowering expectations, you have done it to by saying you would be happy with a final 4 appearance. If you want it to be a top program as you say, than make your expectations to that level.:sssh: I would be happy with running a clean, strong program that gives me things to root for and if a national championship occurs, so be it. But my life is not going to be effected one iota if they do or don't win the national championship. Except maybe I will have another tshirt to wear.
February 14, 200719 yr You know, it's like graduation rates...nice, warm and fuzzy...but nobody really cares....if you're honest with yourself, you'd rather see a national championship that all players graduate. Same with this 77% winning percentage...nice warm and fuzzy, but can't get to a Final Four the past eight years...and this year will make nine. Long drought for the winningest program in the land. Far from it. I am a coach and I judge myself and my program on wins and losses and post season play. In the last 9 years(Tubby's tenure) there are only a handful of teams that have achieved a 77% winning percentage. As far as post season play goes, it has been 8 years since UK won the whole ball of wax. Post season play record during Tubby's tenure is 42-11 (79%). If you have ever coached it is extremely difficult to win a single elimination tournament. That is why you celebrate the heck out of it when you do win it.
February 14, 200719 yr Well I have been critical of Tubby in the past but it hit me today that I actually owe him a great deal of gratitude. There was a time in my life where everything stopped when UK played. I would schedule everything around the next UK game. I can remember being a nervous wreck during tournament time. A UK loss would cause me to sleep poorly. Not anymore. I have my life back. Well I guess I now have a life. I am no longer a prisioner to UK basketball because like alot of other people I could care less. I have discovered other things in life like American Idol. 10 years ago I would have cheated myself out of season a pop culture phenominom but not now. Things have changed and for the longest time I thought it was for the worse but now I have seen the light. If Mitch Barnhardt is reading please do me a favor and keep Tubby Smith at any cost. His presence has saved me thousand of dollars in tickets, parking, concessions, and UK basketball items. So speaking on behalf of thousands of UK fans and fans all across the SEC, thank you Orlando Tubby Smith. Thank you for removing an unhealthy passion from our lives and for making it possible for every team in the SEC to enjoy the thrill of victory. You nailed it Rickyp! Poll the long time fan that's watched the downfall of our beloved Cats and the biggest part of them will feel the same. I'd rather have the unhealthy passion back though...Watching our cats choke out loss after loss to lesser programs is getting old.
February 14, 200719 yr You nailed it Rickyp! Poll the long time fan that's watched the downfall of our beloved Cats and the biggest part of them will feel the same. I'd rather have the unhealthy passion back though...Watching our cats choke out loss after loss to lesser programs is getting old. I don't think the attendance at Rupp is hurting without your presence. But I have heard a lot of complaints about the longterm fans sitting in the bottom arena on their bottoms with an arrogance that it is beneath them to actually stand and cheer against these lesser programs. Maybe we need to get rid of more of those long-term fans that have been attending at Rupp for years and years and then we will really have an arena that gives the boys a homecourt advantage with the student body on the sidelines and endzones.
February 14, 200719 yr I am extremely rational. I have been a season ticket holder for 20 years. My expectation is to be amongst the top ten every season and competing for a national championship. I do realize though that there are going to be years where UK does not meet that expectation. Unlike the others I do not go off the deep end and claim the sky is falling after every loss. Unlike the others I consider the 2005 season a success (28-6) even though we lost to Michigan State in the regional final. Unlike others I consider the 2004 season a success (27-5) even though we ran into a buzz saw in UAB. Unlike others I consider the 2003 season a success (32-4; 16-0 in the SEC) even though we lost in the regional final to Marquette. Last season was the first season I thought was a disappointment in the last 5 years. It remains to be seen if this season will be a success or not. We shall see. The seasons mentioned are hardly, to use your term, Gaylord Fockeresque or anything approaching mediocrity... A coach who wins 77% of the games his team plays in is far from mediocre... You guys can try to rationalize all you want to...The fact is. Kentucky basketball is on a down hill slide and if you can't see it, you're blind!
February 14, 200719 yr You guys can try to rationalize all you want to...The fact is. Kentucky basketball is on a down hill slide and if you can't see it, you're blind! Oh My....
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