You could have saved a lot of time and just typed that you have no idea how much room they have and you were looking to take a gratuitous shot at a guy that spends every day with the team.

 

The figure that National Experts use, before their restricted free agents, but including the Rookie Pool, is the Bengals having $28.8 million available. Are they guessing....maybe. So are you -- why throw stones?

 

Need a whole roster, not just the starters...good tip. :thumb:

 

 

Nice try! (and nice backhanded insult)

 

I choose to believe someone who is objective and not being negative to sell newspapers; Curnutte has never been objective or very knowledgeable about what is going on around the Bengals; it is pure angst at Marvin because he has not figured out how to ask a question that Marvin will answer, so he gets his revenge with his so called "analysis."

 

Who's throwing stones?

 

Your sarcasm is a sure sign of nothing better to say!

By the way Wildcat, if you want to rip him to shreds here (where you know he isn't reading) feel free. However, if you want to put your money where your mouth is, why not go and debate him where I can PROMISE you he'll reply to your insults and allegations: his blog. I think that'd be entertaining.

 

 

Nice try again, I've read his blog; those posters are the most ill informed and most ridiculous. It is not a debate with him; it is a bunch of ill informed sounding off.

 

I figured I try my hand at a more informed crowd; your sarcasm and insults are starting to disappoint my expectations!

:laugh: Right there is funny! You completely contradict yourself from what you were arguing about at the beginning. You were strong in saying the Bengals wouldn't have room, then you changed to well if they dont sign smith they will have room to sign a big name. The only person who really seems like they are guessing is you, and yet your trying to criticize others by saying they are guessing? :lol:

 

Maybe I missed it, but I still haven't seen you reply to the last thing posted when I quoted you, but I guess that would be hard to argue with since pretty much what I said was the truth...:sssh:

 

 

No, sorry I didn't contradict myself.

 

My initial point is Curnutte has reported two different things:

1) They have plenty of room to sign Smith & Steinbach (but may not)

2) They have plenty of room to sign a big name defensive player (but may not) and Smith (but may not)

 

 

They absolutely cannot sign all three or two (unless they let several of the restricted players go)!

 

He also is criticizing the Bengals for not signing big name free agents, which implies it has all been the Bengals choice to not sign these players, when in reality:

1) the salary cap only allows so much room

2) since Marvin, the Bengals have always signed to the cap

3) the Bengals will never overpay for any free agent

4) the Bengals have signed productive free agents

 

I agree with him that they don't have a difference maker, but Geathers, M. Williams, L. Johnson, A. Brooks, C. Miller, J. Joseph, D. Peko could be developing. It takes time for most players to develop; rarely does a player step right in and make the Pro Bowl in the first couple of seasons. Of course there are exceptions.

 

They need to play together for awhile in the same system (although a switch to the 3-4 would excite me).

 

He also criticized Smith saying "What has he ever done?"

1) 1 player does not make a defense

2) the defense was in the top 10 his first year

3) he has led the def. line in tackles every year (except maybe his first)

 

So again, with a rhetorical question, he implies that Justin Smith is not worth re-signing. I am not a huge Smith fan, but let's report the facts, or an opinion supported with facts!

Smith hasn't been the pass rusher we all expected coming out of Missouri but he is a solid player and he's the best run defender on the team bar none. I think we can survive losing Steinbach but I'd love to see them re-sign Smith and still have the cap room to sign one of the "A" listers on the market but I don't know what they can afford.

I choose to believe someone who is objective and not being negative to sell newspapers

 

Okay, who is that "someone?"

 

Curnutte isn't in the business of writing articles to sell papers. He is so disconnected from circulation that it's absurd. That is a typical un-educated bash against any reporter that someone disagrees with and I thought you'd be above that.

 

I can promise you that if you post on his blog with these comments and insinuations you'll get a response from him -- ignore the blow-hards.

 

I'm the one that gave facts -- for example where next year's cap will be and how much "many" are expecting them to have available.

Okay, who is that "someone?"

 

Curnutte isn't in the business of writing articles to sell papers. He is so disconnected from circulation that it's absurd. That is a typical un-educated bash against any reporter that someone disagrees with and I thought you'd be above that.

 

I can promise you that if you post on his blog with these comments and insinuations you'll get a response from him -- ignore the blow-hards.

 

I'm the one that gave facts -- for example where next year's cap will be and how much "many" are expecting them to have available.

 

 

I already toldy you; the someone is Geoff Hobson (you will say he is biased writing for Bengals.com, but he criticizes them all the time, if you read him on a daily basis).

 

Hobson reports different facts; he considers the rookie pool and the amount alotted to restricted free agents that the Bengals will offer.

 

There is a decent amount left to sign 1 top tier free agent, if he is not looking to break the bank (like what has happened with baseball).

 

Negativity sells!!!!!!!! That is what the public wants; listen to the local and national news every night; it is almost all negative; there is no denying that! Not a bash, but reality. (I have never seen a response by him on the blog.)

 

On yesterday's blog, I'll give him credit; he did report all positive things from Miami on the Bengals; I just call them as I see them.

 

I'm not picking on Curnutte either; Chick Ludwig of the Dayton Daily news is worse; the angry guys don't do their research; McCallister feels as if he has to generate material.

 

I believe the media is stuck in the rut of the 13 years prior to Marvin; it was all negative, and that is what the public wanted to hear-rip Mike Brown, rip the head coach, rip the assistants, rip the players- and rightfully so.

 

It is so different now; I realize 8-8 was disappointing, but the reasons were Carson recovering, Braham injured, Levi injured, 3 MLB's, poor CB play, Jackson injured.

 

The offense will be fine (a TE who can get open off play action passes on 1st down would be nice); the defense has been extremely disappointing, especially considering Marvin's pedigree.

 

The media, if they want to be accurate and get improvements where they need to be, then they should level the critcism where it is warranted. Marvin has tried to land big free agents; some because of the old Bengals would not come; others did not get the money that they wanted because the Bengals philosophy is to not mortgage the future with huge contracts for long years (beyond the player's career) that will create dead money. That philosophy is solid economically and will allow the Bengals to be good for a long time and not go away as the 49's have done and the Cowboys did (before Parcells).

No, sorry I didn't contradict myself.

 

My initial point is Curnutte has reported two different things:

1) They have plenty of room to sign Smith & Steinbach (but may not)

2) They have plenty of room to sign a big name defensive player (but may not) and Smith (but may not)

 

 

They absolutely cannot sign all three or two (unless they let several of the restricted players go)!

 

He also is criticizing the Bengals for not signing big name free agents, which implies it has all been the Bengals choice to not sign these players, when in reality:

1) the salary cap only allows so much room

2) since Marvin, the Bengals have always signed to the cap

3) the Bengals will never overpay for any free agent

4) the Bengals have signed productive free agents

 

I agree with him that they don't have a difference maker, but Geathers, M. Williams, L. Johnson, A. Brooks, C. Miller, J. Joseph, D. Peko could be developing. It takes time for most players to develop; rarely does a player step right in and make the Pro Bowl in the first couple of seasons. Of course there are exceptions.

 

They need to play together for awhile in the same system (although a switch to the 3-4 would excite me).

 

He also criticized Smith saying "What has he ever done?"

1) 1 player does not make a defense

2) the defense was in the top 10 his first year

3) he has led the def. line in tackles every year (except maybe his first)

 

So again, with a rhetorical question, he implies that Justin Smith is not worth re-signing. I am not a huge Smith fan, but let's report the facts, or an opinion supported with facts!

 

Ok its pretty simple here buddy! Your argument still makes no sense whats so ever. Yeah I guess you have a problem with that guy, and you know what thats fine that is your own personal matter, but what your saying is not right. I did not see once in the article where he said we can sign smith, steinbach, and a top free agent. What he said is what has smith done to make him resign him instead of getting one of these top free agents. This whole article is about how these defenses have a player that makes their defenses what they are. In the Colts they have Bob Sanders,when they dont have him we have all seen how terrible they are, but when they have him they are a good defense. Same with the Bears if you take Urlacher away they are not that good of a defense at all. His point is that these great defenses have one impact player on their defense that makes them good, and well are defense does not have that player and why do you think that has been are weak part of the team. We have had Smith for a few years now and we haven't done much on defense, so yeah what has he done to make us a good defense,that is right its nothing. So why not let him go and sign someone that could possible have an impact..As for the other years I have already addressed that with you. I read bengals.com all the time with geoff hobson so I know all the same stuff that you say you know from there. And yeah the bengals have gone to the cap limit each year, and that is because instead of signing one big name,they go and sign three or so veterans who are decent. The point that we are all trying to make that you cant seem to get through your head is that well that phiosphy has not worked, so why not this year with the cap room we do have available go out there and sign that one big free agent that can have an impact on the team. And dont give me that crap about not having enough room to sign one because we do. If we dont sign Smith and Steinbach back then we definitely have enough room even after signing are restricted free agents back and rookies. So yeah I really dont know why you are arguing so much about this with everyone like that we are all wrong and you are right, because its really not hard to figure out that we are pretty much right in what we are saying,and that is that there is enough room to sign one of these guys if we dont sign smith back,so that is why we think this year Marvin does need to go out there and actually sign one of those top guys...

Yeah, just because majority agrees, that makes YOU right.

That has always been the case in history......?????Weak argument.

 

As far as a problem with Curnutte, no, just inaccurate reporting and talking out of both sides of one's mouth. Most of the Bengals writers don't really have a clue- Ludwig (Dayton Daily News), Goheen (seems to fall in line with the rest) Skinner, Gamble, McCallister (all of radio.)

 

1) Curnutte does indeed say the Bengals can sign Smith and a whole lot more.

2) A month ago, he said the Bengals could sign Smith & Steinbach.

 

Which is it? According to the two articles, the Bengals could sign all three!

 

As far as paying for more players rather than one big name:

 

1) Sapp or....

2) Bobbie Williams and having the ability to trade for Deltha O' Neal

 

We can differ in opinion, but I'd take #2.

 

Obviously, nothing they have done defensively has worked, but with their youth they could be getting close.

 

DE- Fanene (has been hurt, but when healthy has flashed, Rucker (did okay in preseason before injury) Geathers (if they stay in 4-3

DT- Peko (could be very good) Smith (average)

ILB- Brooks, Miller (both have shown signs), Nicholson (didn't dress much)

OLB- Jeanty, Johnson (both above average)

CB- Joseph (could be great), Brooks (the word is they love his man to man-he always seems to be hurt)

S- Williams (could be great-needs to tackle better), Kilmer (flashed), Busing (Ludwig reported they are high on him in The Sporting News-we will see)

 

This excludes all veterans, who obviously can help.

 

This is the main area where Marvin Lewis needs to do better; hopefully they will get a break on injuries.

 

A big name, who's a leader, could be enough to help the talented youth gel.

 

I'm afraid the Free Agents are going to go the way of baseball and demand more than even what they are worth- Thomas, Briggs, Samuel, & Clements are indeed going to want huge money. I think the Begals can afford one if he doesn't go overboard with what he is asking; I just think that is not going to happen.

I realize I just bashed Ludwig, but he has a different take on the cap than Curnutte (sounds closer to Hobson's assessment).

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/bengals/2007/02/03/ddn020307bengalsweb.html

Yeah, just because majority agrees, that makes YOU right.

That has always been the case in history......?????Weak argument.

 

As far as a problem with Curnutte, no, just inaccurate reporting and talking out of both sides of one's mouth. Most of the Bengals writers don't really have a clue- Ludwig (Dayton Daily News), Goheen (seems to fall in line with the rest) Skinner, Gamble, McCallister (all of radio.)

 

1) Curnutte does indeed say the Bengals can sign Smith and a whole lot more.

2) A month ago, he said the Bengals could sign Smith & Steinbach.

 

Which is it? According to the two articles, the Bengals could sign all three!

 

As far as paying for more players rather than one big name:

 

1) Sapp or....

2) Bobbie Williams and having the ability to trade for Deltha O' Neal

 

We can differ in opinion, but I'd take #2.

 

Obviously, nothing they have done defensively has worked, but with their youth they could be getting close.

 

DE- Fanene (has been hurt, but when healthy has flashed, Rucker (did okay in preseason before injury) Geathers (if they stay in 4-3

DT- Peko (could be very good) Smith (average)

ILB- Brooks, Miller (both have shown signs), Nicholson (didn't dress much)

OLB- Jeanty, Johnson (both above average)

CB- Joseph (could be great), Brooks (the word is they love his man to man-he always seems to be hurt)

S- Williams (could be great-needs to tackle better), Kilmer (flashed), Busing (Ludwig reported they are high on him in The Sporting News-we will see)

 

This excludes all veterans, who obviously can help.

 

This is the main area where Marvin Lewis needs to do better; hopefully they will get a break on injuries.

 

A big name, who's a leader, could be enough to help the talented youth gel.

 

I'm afraid the Free Agents are going to go the way of baseball and demand more than even what they are worth- Thomas, Briggs, Samuel, & Clements are indeed going to want huge money. I think the Begals can afford one if he doesn't go overboard with what he is asking; I just think that is not going to happen.

 

Dude its two differern't articles. Guys have to come up with stories to write, and that one week he was talking about the prospective and getting steinbach and smith back signed. He didn't mention signing anyone of them back in the article when talking about get a top notch free agent. So yeah he has had two articles, but that doesn't mean he thinks they can sign all three...And if you pay attention at all to what I have said, I have said that yeah it is sometimes alright to not sign the high priced free agent, and instead go out and get maybe 2 or 3 decent players that could make a difference. We all know that, so once again what you been arguing about this whole time is just pointless. Are point is that the defense is the one thing that is really keep this team from going places, and yeah we do have youth and we have brough in 2 or 3 cheaper affordable guys the last few years, but this is the year where we should go out there and try to sign that one guy who can have A HUGE impact on this defense. If we get one of those guys who can make a impact, it will make even these younger guys even better. Also as I said I read bengals.com EVERY SINGLE DAY, so I know all the stuff that you have seen on there to, and the Bengals DO HAVE ENOUGH ROOM to sign one of those free agents this year if they dont sign smith back. Yeah I loved Smith, but one of those other guys can have a bigger impact on this defense than signing Smith back, and that is what we are wanting Marvin and the Bengals to do. So why dont you stop this silly argument now, because your really arguing about nothing here that we dont know, but you just can't seem to grasp the concept that the Bengals do have enough room, and we would like to see them go out and get that one guy who can make a difference this year for a change....

Dude its two differern't articles. Guys have to come up with stories to write, and that one week he was talking about the prospective and getting steinbach and smith back signed. He didn't mention signing anyone of them back in the article when talking about get a top notch free agent. So yeah he has had two articles, but that doesn't mean he thinks they can sign all three...And if you pay attention at all to what I have said, I have said that yeah it is sometimes alright to not sign the high priced free agent, and instead go out and get maybe 2 or 3 decent players that could make a difference. We all know that, so once again what you been arguing about this whole time is just pointless. Are point is that the defense is the one thing that is really keep this team from going places, and yeah we do have youth and we have brough in 2 or 3 cheaper affordable guys the last few years, but this is the year where we should go out there and try to sign that one guy who can have A HUGE impact on this defense. If we get one of those guys who can make a impact, it will make even these younger guys even better. Also as I said I read bengals.com EVERY SINGLE DAY, so I know all the stuff that you have seen on there to, and the Bengals DO HAVE ENOUGH ROOM to sign one of those free agents this year if they dont sign smith back. Yeah I loved Smith, but one of those other guys can have a bigger impact on this defense than signing Smith back, and that is what we are wanting Marvin and the Bengals to do. So why dont you stop this silly argument now, because your really arguing about nothing here that we dont know, but you just can't seem to grasp the concept that the Bengals do have enough room, and we would like to see them go out and get that one guy who can make a difference this year for a change....

 

When a writer says one thing one time and a different thing another time-that is called "talking out of both sides of your mouth!"

 

They will only have enough room if the free agents to be aren't overpriced like in baseball; it's that simple.

When a writer says one thing one time and a different thing another time-that is called "talking out of both sides of your mouth!"

 

They will only have enough room if the free agents to be aren't overpriced like in baseball; it's that simple.

 

The articles are on two different things buddy. One of them is talking about signing their own guys back, and this one talks about if they go out and get a free agent. If he really thought they could sign all three he would have put it in the one article. Writers have to write about differen't things all the time, and so that doesn't mean he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. He simply had articles explaining two different situations. And football is not baseball, and well either way we will have enough to sign one of them unless its a outrageous type deal like A-Rod got. And if it was a QB we were trying to go after then I could see that it could cost us ALOT of money and we wouldn't be able to afford it. Also there is one thing you have seemed to forgot in all of this, we DO NOT HAVE a 3rd round pick this year, so that also gives us a little bit more extra money to be able to go after one of these big time free agents this year. I really dont know why you keep arguing about this, because the Bengals do have enough room to get one of those free agents if they choose not to sign Smith back, its that simple...

If Briggs from the Bears is a Free agent I think we should go after him to replace Thurman...

If Briggs from the Bears is a Free agent I think we should go after him to replace Thurman...

 

 

I am thinking he'll be franchised which means if we want him we'll have to pay him some jack.....

The articles are on two different things buddy. One of them is talking about signing their own guys back, and this one talks about if they go out and get a free agent. If he really thought they could sign all three he would have put it in the one article. Writers have to write about differen't things all the time, and so that doesn't mean he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. He simply had articles explaining two different situations. And football is not baseball, and well either way we will have enough to sign one of them unless its a outrageous type deal like A-Rod got. And if it was a QB we were trying to go after then I could see that it could cost us ALOT of money and we wouldn't be able to afford it. Also there is one thing you have seemed to forgot in all of this, we DO NOT HAVE a 3rd round pick this year, so that also gives us a little bit more extra money to be able to go after one of these big time free agents this year. I really dont know why you keep arguing about this, because the Bengals do have enough room to get one of those free agents if they choose not to sign Smith back, its that simple...

 

 

Smith & Steinback + Smith & free agent= Smith, Steinbach, & free agent.

 

I hope you are right; I hope they can sign Thomas, Briggs, Samuel, or Clements. If they don't though, it is NOT because they just didn't want to pay the money. We will see, and again, I hope you are right.