9 minutes ago, Mr. Sixer said:

40s are a relative factor but certainly not the be all end all on if a young man is a football PLAYER! There are plenty of cases where players did not run blazing 40s but turned out to EXCELLENT college and even professional football players. 
 

Important, yes.  Be all end all, absolutely not! 
Bottom line is you have to be able to demonstrate “football” speed and be able to be a consistent playmaker on the field. 

Give me a guy who can move in and out of cuts quickly and separate that way as opposed to flat speed all day.

Only time I was timed , I was a Sophomore and was timed at 4.7 and that was 48 years ago. Yikes.

1 minute ago, snakesnot_2000 said:

Only time I was timed , I was a Sophomore and was timed at 4.7 and that was 48 years ago. Yikes.

4.7 + .24 = 4.94

My story is I ran a 4.7 forty and I'm stickin to it. Lol.

40 times are definitely relevant on the field. 100m dash times are looked at by college recruiters just as closely as they are reactive and laser times. 

4 hours ago, QBone2 said:

40 times are definitely relevant on the field. 100m dash times are looked at by college recruiters just as closely as they are reactive and laser times. 

No disagreement whatsoever but certainly is not the be all end all. Cooper Kupp ran in the 4.6s in college and his pro day but he certainly can get open,  There's a difference in straightline fast and playmaker football fast and both are very important no doubt.

40 times are a lot like pitchers getting clocked on various, cheap radar guns. Lots of guys are claiming to throw 85+, but the reality is most of the time you can 4-5 mph off what many guys are claiming. The thing with both is when you finally see the real thing, it's vastly different. A guy with a real 4.5 40 is blazing fast and makes those guys who really runs 4.8 look real slow. That being said, even 4.8 is pretty fast for High School football. And speed is a killer. Much of what people like to identify as bad tackling, is really a result of a bunch of guys with average speed playing against a team with a bunch of fast guys.

Reality is that speed can rarely be taught. 40 time will always be a huge bench mark of athletic ability.  Obviously lateral movement is just as important and why the 3 cone drill and 5 10 5 is always a part of combines.  Watching the draft right now and every other statement is 40 times. With that being said, kids can post whatever time they want on Twitter or whatever social media they want... but when they get to a camp and show what they can really do is when the true story comes  out. 

I understand the importance of speed, the ability to cut and everything else mentioned. My point was that high school 40 times are dubious at best and flat out lies more often than not.

On 4/27/2023 at 11:10 PM, QBone2 said:

Reality is that speed can rarely be taught. 40 time will always be a huge bench mark of athletic ability.  Obviously lateral movement is just as important and why the 3 cone drill and 5 10 5 is always a part of combines.  Watching the draft right now and every other statement is 40 times. With that being said, kids can post whatever time they want on Twitter or whatever social media they want... but when they get to a camp and show what they can really do is when the true story comes  out. 

Not to specifically disagree with your point ... but the thought in general ... I have been involved in the game at the high school level for 30+ years -- I haven't met a single college coach at any level who specifically asked for a players 40 time.

Those players stand out against most high school competition. 

Most importantly ... 40 times are a gimmick/marketing scheme used by camps and fraud trainers who sell kids, but more so parents, on the idea that colleges and college coaches care about 40 times. They don't. 

College coaches want to see players with large frames who are not just vertically fast ... but laterally quick/fast.

A friend of mine has a relative who plays across the river. He has dropped fast 40 times, average 40 times and everywhere between. Not much interest. When college coaches started to see film of this player leaving Lakota West and St. X players behind ...it was a game changer. 

16 hours ago, gbballfan21 said:

Not to specifically disagree with your point ... but the thought in general ... I have been involved in the game at the high school level for 30+ years -- I haven't met a single college coach at any level who specifically asked for a players 40 time.

Those players stand out against most high school competition. 

Most importantly ... 40 times are a gimmick/marketing scheme used by camps and fraud trainers who sell kids, but more so parents, on the idea that colleges and college coaches care about 40 times. They don't. 

College coaches want to see players with large frames who are not just vertically fast ... but laterally quick/fast.

A friend of mine has a relative who plays across the river. He has dropped fast 40 times, average 40 times and everywhere between. Not much interest. When college coaches started to see film of this player leaving Lakota West and St. X players behind ...it was a game changer. 

I guess you are right... that's why literally every college prospect camp and NFL combine feature the 40... 40 times are not make or break, however it will get you noticed at any camp if you are posting the fastest 40 time from a smaller program or are a lesser known athlete.  College coaches just want to see larger framed kids that are quick fast??? Have you watched any college games in the last 10 years? The game has changed.  Players are leaner and faster. Power smash mouth football is almost gone. Speed kills in today's game now more than ever. To state 40 times are a gimmick is just plain silly! You haven't heard a coach ask about 40 time because they already know it from social media and recruiting sites. Kids can look amazing on film depending on the competition they play. By timing the 40 at a camp will dictate if they can play on the same level as top kids in the country... of course with other drills as well. Its like watching a track meet and the 100m Dash has 20 heats... every kid that wins their heat looks fast but only the fastest heat will have the fastest kid. Rarely do you see a kid win from a slower heat.

10 hours ago, QBone2 said:

I guess you are right... that's why literally every college prospect camp and NFL combine feature the 40... 40 times are not make or break, however it will get you noticed at any camp if you are posting the fastest 40 time from a smaller program or are a lesser known athlete.  College coaches just want to see larger framed kids that are quick fast??? Have you watched any college games in the last 10 years? The game has changed.  Players are leaner and faster. Power smash mouth football is almost gone. Speed kills in today's game now more than ever. To state 40 times are a gimmick is just plain silly! You haven't heard a coach ask about 40 time because they already know it from social media and recruiting sites. Kids can look amazing on film depending on the competition they play. By timing the 40 at a camp will dictate if they can play on the same level as top kids in the country... of course with other drills as well. Its like watching a track meet and the 100m Dash has 20 heats... every kid that wins their heat looks fast but only the fastest heat will have the fastest kid. Rarely do you see a kid win from a slower heat.

Wow. Thank you -- after 30 years in this sport -- I finally have someone who is willing to teach me how things REALLY work! 

First -- colleges very much want "large framed" fast, quick kids. Notice the word "frame"? Or -- maybe you can understand the word "long". Show me a top tier college or any pro team -- I will show you 85% of the team that is "long" or "large framed". I am not really sure how you can't make heads or tails out of the words "large frame" ... but to each his own (I guess). 

I do find this comical -- do you really believe that college assistant coaches are scanning twitter or any type of social media to find "fast" players? Seriously? 

To start -- pretty much every bowl series team assistant today has either recruiting assistants or their secretaries handling their social media. Smaller schools -- it probably happens more often. 

Let me give you a quick reminder -- the topic of this thread basically about bogus 40 times. I know there are some pretty impressive football minds who read this site -- if there is frustration from the common, every day fan, high school coach, etc as to how some of these times are basically impossible or are captured by a stop watch or flat out lies ... Do you really expect a big time college football coach to be impressed with 40 times that they see on social media? Do you really think big time college coaches can't look at the competition that a "fast" player is playing against and realize that the competition is really good ... or really bad? No offense -- but college coaches are a little more talented than you are giving them credit for. 

As I said earlier -- I have been deeply involved in the game for over 30 years. How did schools figure out who was fast BEFORE social media? (I hope you absorb this answer for your own sake ... which = FILM and seeing a player play in person). 

Combines ... hmm I would say that every once in a while -- a large school will find a diamond in the rough that they may have missed if the player would not have shown up. Again -- the odds are probably better that a player at a combine may interest a coach at a smaller school. 

Do you know why college assistants like camps (and why people who love "combines")? Because it is usually means extra income for the assistants on staff ... yes ... its actually written in some of their contracts. Most persons who run combines -- whether you agree or not -- its a freaking money grab. Nothing less/nothing more. "Recruiting sites" -- seriously? While I am sure college teams pay for access -- they are usually only subscribing because all of the other schools that they compete with are. At the end of the day "Recruiting sites" fall easily into the "Money Grab" trash bin. 

Specific camps that are ran by schools -- usually invite guys they want to see -- but that isn't the same as a combine -- or camps where schools let in 300 kids for 3-5 days of Mommy and Daddy throwing down their hard earned dollars. 

Your analogy about track -- and kids running the 100 meter dash is bogus also. It doesn't take a genius to know that the fast heat is either the very first heat (more common now than in the past) or the very last heat (not as common as it used to be). It isn't hard to see that a kid that wins any of the other heats is significantly slower than a runner in the fast heat (unless a coach fudges a time -- which also doesn't happen as much as it used to thanks to FAT). Not to mention, I have never been to a track meet where I didn't have a stopwatch, watch or a phone with a stopwatch. Its pretty easy to see who is fast and who isn't. 

The 40 is a gimmick. It is put on for a show in the NFL combine -- and it is part of the show to make parents feel good about shelling out money for little Johnny or Jack who just has to play college football. Why would a P5 college coach give a damn about an offensive lineman running a 40 yard dash -- when the OL player needs to be quick/fast for 5-10 yards on each play? Why would an NFL coach care about players running a fast 40 when less than half the players on the field at any one time could potentially run 40 yards? (At that level -- they are ALL fast). They don't. Yes, fast players are great -- but the best players have the ability to hit another gear when they are in the heat of battle -- and that can't be measured in a 40 yard dash. 

We don't have to agree (matter of fact -- I really hope we don't). The really interesting part -- is that with the transfer portal -- all of this conversation about speed will continue to evolve. Colleges now spend approximately 75% of their resources on transfers. Which leaves the high school athlete having to not only be fast and large framed -- but ready to play immediately. More importantly, college coaches who build and develop relationships will be even more important in trying to get those players to stay. 

I will end with this -- in reality the current high school football recruiting landscape is about 2 things ... winning and money. Kids post their "offers" on social media to brag or show off and to make Mommy and Daddy feel proud.

The reality of the situation is -- there are basically no committable offers anymore. And -- most "offers" that parents and kids are hung up on -- are basically "offers" for that player and/or parents to pay $40-50K a year to be on a college football team that rarely lives up to the experience they had in high school.

 

2 hours ago, gbballfan21 said:

Wow. Thank you -- after 30 years in this sport -- I finally have someone who is willing to teach me how things REALLY work! 

First -- colleges very much want "large framed" fast, quick kids. Notice the word "frame"? Or -- maybe you can understand the word "long". Show me a top tier college or any pro team -- I will show you 85% of the team that is "long" or "large framed". I am not really sure how you can't make heads or tails out of the words "large frame" ... but to each his own (I guess). 

I do find this comical -- do you really believe that college assistant coaches are scanning twitter or any type of social media to find "fast" players? Seriously? 

To start -- pretty much every bowl series team assistant today has either recruiting assistants or their secretaries handling their social media. Smaller schools -- it probably happens more often. 

Let me give you a quick reminder -- the topic of this thread basically about bogus 40 times. I know there are some pretty impressive football minds who read this site -- if there is frustration from the common, every day fan, high school coach, etc as to how some of these times are basically impossible or are captured by a stop watch or flat out lies ... Do you really expect a big time college football coach to be impressed with 40 times that they see on social media? Do you really think big time college coaches can't look at the competition that a "fast" player is playing against and realize that the competition is really good ... or really bad? No offense -- but college coaches are a little more talented than you are giving them credit for. 

As I said earlier -- I have been deeply involved in the game for over 30 years. How did schools figure out who was fast BEFORE social media? (I hope you absorb this answer for your own sake ... which = FILM and seeing a player play in person). 

Combines ... hmm I would say that every once in a while -- a large school will find a diamond in the rough that they may have missed if the player would not have shown up. Again -- the odds are probably better that a player at a combine may interest a coach at a smaller school. 

Do you know why college assistants like camps (and why people who love "combines")? Because it is usually means extra income for the assistants on staff ... yes ... its actually written in some of their contracts. Most persons who run combines -- whether you agree or not -- its a freaking money grab. Nothing less/nothing more. "Recruiting sites" -- seriously? While I am sure college teams pay for access -- they are usually only subscribing because all of the other schools that they compete with are. At the end of the day "Recruiting sites" fall easily into the "Money Grab" trash bin. 

Specific camps that are ran by schools -- usually invite guys they want to see -- but that isn't the same as a combine -- or camps where schools let in 300 kids for 3-5 days of Mommy and Daddy throwing down their hard earned dollars. 

Your analogy about track -- and kids running the 100 meter dash is bogus also. It doesn't take a genius to know that the fast heat is either the very first heat (more common now than in the past) or the very last heat (not as common as it used to be). It isn't hard to see that a kid that wins any of the other heats is significantly slower than a runner in the fast heat (unless a coach fudges a time -- which also doesn't happen as much as it used to thanks to FAT). Not to mention, I have never been to a track meet where I didn't have a stopwatch, watch or a phone with a stopwatch. Its pretty easy to see who is fast and who isn't. 

The 40 is a gimmick. It is put on for a show in the NFL combine -- and it is part of the show to make parents feel good about shelling out money for little Johnny or Jack who just has to play college football. Why would a P5 college coach give a damn about an offensive lineman running a 40 yard dash -- when the OL player needs to be quick/fast for 5-10 yards on each play? Why would an NFL coach care about players running a fast 40 when less than half the players on the field at any one time could potentially run 40 yards? (At that level -- they are ALL fast). They don't. Yes, fast players are great -- but the best players have the ability to hit another gear when they are in the heat of battle -- and that can't be measured in a 40 yard dash. 

We don't have to agree (matter of fact -- I really hope we don't). The really interesting part -- is that with the transfer portal -- all of this conversation about speed will continue to evolve. Colleges now spend approximately 75% of their resources on transfers. Which leaves the high school athlete having to not only be fast and large framed -- but ready to play immediately. More importantly, college coaches who build and develop relationships will be even more important in trying to get those players to stay. 

I will end with this -- in reality the current high school football recruiting landscape is about 2 things ... winning and money. Kids post their "offers" on social media to brag or show off and to make Mommy and Daddy feel proud.

The reality of the situation is -- there are basically no committable offers anymore. And -- most "offers" that parents and kids are hung up on -- are basically "offers" for that player and/or parents to pay $40-50K a year to be on a college football team that rarely lives up to the experience they had in high school.

 

Man I laughed so hard at this! Recruiting today is no where near what it was 30 years ago. Kids posting offers absolutely stir up other offers.  I  know and work with several kids with some decent offers. We should let the NFL and NCAA know that because you think 40 times are gimmick that they should stop doing them. As I said in a previous reply to the post about bogus times.... it all comes out in camp. Guy writes a novel of a response is comical! ? ? ?