Recent Violence Against Teachers

[ChickenWyngz]

On 11/29/2021 at 2:32 PM, theguru said:

My response to it:

The negative comments about how tough it currently is to be a teacher are mind boggling. 

Absolute school choice is the only possible solution here. 

How so? 

[theguru]

On 12/1/2021 at 11:18 AM, ChickenWyngz said:

How so? 

Because it gives teachers a choice.  For example, how prevalent is violence in private schools vs. public schools?  

Thinking big picture, each school will be run a little different and many of those schools will end up being better working conditions for teachers.

As long as there is a monopoly on education not much is going to change other than I believe it will slowly get worse and worse like it has been doing for the last 40 years. 

[ChickenWyngz]

On 12/1/2021 at 11:21 AM, theguru said:

Because it gives teachers a choice.  For example, how prevalent is violence in private schools vs. public schools?  

Thinking big picture, each school will be run a little different and many of those schools will end up being better working conditions for teachers.

As long as there is a monopoly on education not much is going to change other than I believe it will slowly get worse and worse like it has been doing for the last 40 years. 

I see this, but you're still going to have useless parents that decide to send their kids to the better school. Unless public schools have the freedom to send kids packing with the same ease as a private school I'm not sure that would change much. 

I think teachers do have a choice. I don't work in the district I started in because I demanded a bit more respect from students/parents than I was getting. It's not perfect where I am, but it is a lot better. 

What happens to the "bad" schools in that instance? Someone has to educate those kids too. 

You're spot on about it slowly getting worse. I've seen that in the 12 years I've been involved. 

[theguru]

Just now, ChickenWyngz said:

I see this, but you're still going to have useless parents that decide to send their kids to the better school. Unless public schools have the freedom to send kids packing with the same ease as a private school I'm not sure that would change much. 

I think teachers do have a choice. I don't work in the district I started in because I demanded a bit more respect from students/parents than I was getting. It's not perfect where I am, but it is a lot better. 

What happens to the "bad" schools in that instance? Someone has to educate those kids too. 

You're spot on about it slowly getting worse. I've seen that in the 12 years I've been involved. 

In short, the bad schools will "go out of business."

[ChickenWyngz]

3 minutes ago, theguru said:

In short, the bad schools will "go out of business."

I get that completely and think we need some kind of way to pull this off now. Not necessarily out of business, but a much quicker state takeover, etc, when schools are unsafe, etc. 

My only question would be where do those students go? If the bad students are causing the issue wouldn't they just mess it up for a better school when theirs closes down? 

[theguru]

Just now, ChickenWyngz said:

I get that completely and think we need some kind of way to pull this off now. Not necessarily out of business, but a much quicker state takeover, etc, when schools are unsafe, etc. 

My only question would be where do those students go? If the bad students are causing the issue wouldn't they just mess it up for a better school when theirs closes down? 

The good schools would get bigger and new schools would appear just like any business model. 

[DanvilleFan]

On 12/1/2021 at 11:33 AM, theguru said:

The good schools would get bigger and new schools would appear just like any business model. 

But if the good schools have to accept the students who caused issues at their previous school then doesn't the good school just become a not so good school anymore?  Then people flee to any other good school or new school and then the old good school becomes the bad school and rinse and repeat.

The other reason teachers are tired is the incessant "one more thing" approach to jobs where they are being asked to do more and more (look at recent calls for educators to be responsible for administering Narcan and being trained on that).  How does a school choice model help with that?  Based on what I have seen, charter schools ask for a lot more out of their teachers, to the point of demanding they work well beyond school closing and even being on call in the evenings.  A friend worked in one in New York City where they even had to give out their cell phone number to parents and students.  It was nuts.  Not surprisingly, they left that job after a year.  That kind of expectation is not sustainable, especially with the pay teachers receive.

[theguru]

On 12/4/2021 at 4:12 AM, DanvilleFan said:

But if the good schools have to accept the students who caused issues at their previous school then doesn't the good school just become a not so good school anymore?  Then people flee to any other good school or new school and then the old good school becomes the bad school and rinse and repeat.

The other reason teachers are tired is the incessant "one more thing" approach to jobs where they are being asked to do more and more (look at recent calls for educators to be responsible for administering Narcan and being trained on that).  How does a school choice model help with that?  Based on what I have seen, charter schools ask for a lot more out of their teachers, to the point of demanding they work well beyond school closing and even being on call in the evenings.  A friend worked in one in New York City where they even had to give out their cell phone number to parents and students.  It was nuts.  Not surprisingly, they left that job after a year.  That kind of expectation is not sustainable, especially with the pay teachers receive.

Good point.  In short, there would definitely have to be some "alternative schools" for the problem children and in those schools the teachers would have some slightly different skill sets (and probably get paid more).  So if a student got expelled from one school maybe they would get a second chance at a school of their choice but if they got kicked out again they would go to an alternative school that was half school and half institution.  What we can never have is disruptive (or slower) students dragging the elite students/schools down. 

[ChickenWyngz]

2 minutes ago, theguru said:

Good point.  In short, there would definitely have to be some "alternative schools" for the problem children and in those schools the teachers would have some slightly different skill sets (and probably get paid more).  So if a student got expelled from one school maybe they would get a second chance at a school of their choice but if they got kicked out again they would go to an alternative school that was half school and half institution.  What we can never have is disruptive (or slower) students dragging the elite students/schools down. 

I struggle with the use of the word slower here, but could get on board with everything else. 

[theguru]

Just now, ChickenWyngz said:

I struggle with the use of the word slower here, but could get on board with everything else. 

I hesitated when I used the word slow but I am trying to make a concise point.  We could say students not up to the academics standards and demands of a given school. 

[bulldog77]

On 12/1/2021 at 11:27 AM, theguru said:

In short, the bad schools will "go out of business."

No boss, they won't.  The problem with your premise is that you apparently assume those "bad kids'" and those "bad parents" will just disappear after they've been expelled, excommunicated, whatever.  They still have a right to an education based on federal and state law.  You think they're just going to all join the service at age 12?   Someone, somewhere STILL has to educate the kids that currently the private schools opt out of educating and, in your scenario, future public schools should opt out of educating.  Talk about creating a cast system.  No, we need to stop thinking about treating the results and spend more time on treating the causes of the issues.  Those will be very, very hard options and choices.

[theguru]

1 minute ago, bulldog77 said:

No boss, they won't.  The problem with your premise is that you apparently assume those "bad kids'" and those "bad parents" will just disappear after they've been expelled, excommunicated, whatever.  They still have a right to an education based on federal and state law.  You think they're just going to all join the service at age 12?   Someone, somewhere STILL has to educate the kids that currently the private schools opt out of educating and, in your scenario, future public schools should opt out of educating.  Talk about creating a cast system.  No, we need to stop thinking about treating the results and spend more time on treating the causes of the issues.  Those will be very, very hard options and choices.

I already covered this, "bad kids" will end up going to "alternative schools" and out of the mainstream. 

[ChickenWyngz]

15 hours ago, bulldog77 said:

No boss, they won't.  The problem with your premise is that you apparently assume those "bad kids'" and those "bad parents" will just disappear after they've been expelled, excommunicated, whatever.  They still have a right to an education based on federal and state law.  You think they're just going to all join the service at age 12?   Someone, somewhere STILL has to educate the kids that currently the private schools opt out of educating and, in your scenario, future public schools should opt out of educating.  Talk about creating a cast system.  No, we need to stop thinking about treating the results and spend more time on treating the causes of the issues.  Those will be very, very hard options and choices.

I'm with ya! What are the causes (the biggest ones because I believe there are MANY) and how do we treat the causes? 

[Tigerpride94]

Sad teachers have to deal with stuff like this. All too common here in Louisville.

[Beechwoodfan]

I think there definitely needs to be more alternative schools.  But these schools would need extra funding for counselors, security and other support staff.  I think many so called “bad kids” have had it rough their whole lives.