I will put together a longer response to Mustang's OP later.  For now I will say I disagree strongly with more than half of what he posted. He is the epitome of "old man get off my lawn" syndrome. If the Big Red Machine showed up at GABP,  Mustang would be complaining about how old they are and that the Reds somehow messed up their return.

2 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

I will put together a longer response to Mustang's OP later.  For now I will say I disagree strongly with more than half of what he posted. He is the epitome of "old man get off my lawn" syndrome. If the Big Red Machine showed up at GABP,  Mustang would be complaining about how old they are and that the Reds somehow messed up their return.

And you are OK with the product being put out there, and the quality of baseball that we get night after night?  Fifteen pitchers one night and then fifteen more the next?  Four hour and forty-eight minute games???  Competent starting pitching followed by incompetent relief work???  A continuous revolving door roster???

I've been to the mountaintop of Major League Baseball and I've seen the promised land, and it irks me to see how badly things have deteriorated.  Not for me, but for all of the youngsters and millennials out there who have never witnessed championship caliber anything in this town, with absolutely no promise of better things for the future.

We were sold a bill of goods about five or six years ago about a "rebuild", and sold off our high-priced players, who were a better brand of mediocre than we presently enjoy.  Funny thing happened on the way to the re-build.  THERE WAS NO REBUILD, and we are presently a rudderless ship.

I find it hard to believe that Bob Castellini allows this to happen.  When he bought the club he promised a return to the glory days of the Reds and a competitive team.  What has he received for his investment???

I just find the entire charade of all MLB to be a farce, and our local once-proud product falling like a rock in the river, with no answers in sight.   .  

8 minutes ago, Mustang said:

And you are OK with the product being put out there, and the quality of baseball that we get night after night?  Fifteen pitchers one night and then fifteen more the next?  Four hour and forty-eight minute games???  Competent starting pitching followed by incompetent relief work???  A continuous revolving door roster???

I've been to the mountaintop of Major League Baseball and I've seen the promised land, and it irks me to see how badly things have deteriorated.  Not for me, but for all of the youngsters and millennials out there who have never witnessed championship caliber anything in this town, with absolutely no promise of better things for the future.

We were sold a bill of goods about five or six years ago about a "rebuild", and sold off our high-priced players, who were a better brand of mediocre than we presently enjoy.  Funny thing happened on the way to the re-build.  THERE WAS NO REBUILD, and we are presently a rudderless ship.

I find it hard to believe that Bob Castellini allows this to happen.  When he bought the club he promised a return to the glory days of the Reds and a competitive team.  What has he received for his investment???

I just find the entire charade of all MLB to be a farce, and our local once-proud product falling like a rock in the river, with no answers in sight.   .  

 I certainly have complaints. The Big Red Machine played almost 50 years ago and we haven't seen a team like that since. I'm not expecting that. 

Baseball as a whole is different today than it was even 20 years ago and in many ways the quality today is better. 

9 hours ago, REALSPORT said:

I  have not followed the team as closely this year.  Your comment about India surprises me.  What's the story there?  Is he really not liked in the clubhouse?

 

India is a loner.  He goes about his business, stays to himself and doesn't yuck it up with the other players.  He is a GOOD baseball player.  It seems to make it in Cincinnati you've got to hug up on Jim Day, and become one of the Big Three, Big Four etc.,  I like the guy as a player, BUT the other Reds are going to play around him and not with him, which is bad chemistry.

To his credit, how many of you feel, that if he were a veteran player and not a rookie, he would be, or would have been on the Moustakas IR list plan????  By our talking heads talking about him "playing through injuries" just means he doesn't want to jeopardize a position or spot on a roster that he hasn't been established on.

Double switch last night and Bell takes Winker out???  REALLY??!!  Wow!!??
Another great exhibition of base running tonight, I say this all the time but “just what could have Aquino been thinking!!??”

Rudderless ship describes it pretty well

10 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

 I certainly have complaints. The Big Red Machine played almost 50 years ago and we haven't seen a team like that since. I'm not expecting that. 

Baseball as a whole is different today than it was even 20 years ago and in many ways the quality today is better. 

Uh, I’ll have sternly disagree VOR about the quality being better today!!  No way in my opinion because I watched that era!!

12 hours ago, Mustang said:

And you are OK with the product being put out there, and the quality of baseball that we get night after night?  Fifteen pitchers one night and then fifteen more the next?  Four hour and forty-eight minute games???  Competent starting pitching followed by incompetent relief work???  A continuous revolving door roster???

I've been to the mountaintop of Major League Baseball and I've seen the promised land, and it irks me to see how badly things have deteriorated.  Not for me, but for all of the youngsters and millennials out there who have never witnessed championship caliber anything in this town, with absolutely no promise of better things for the future.

We were sold a bill of goods about five or six years ago about a "rebuild", and sold off our high-priced players, who were a better brand of mediocre than we presently enjoy.  Funny thing happened on the way to the re-build.  THERE WAS NO REBUILD, and we are presently a rudderless ship.

I find it hard to believe that Bob Castellini allows this to happen.  When he bought the club he promised a return to the glory days of the Reds and a competitive team.  What has he received for his investment???

I just find the entire charade of all MLB to be a farce, and our local once-proud product falling like a rock in the river, with no answers in sight.   .  

The Reds window of the rebuild was last year and it got screwed up by a pandemic. Thats not me making excuses. They legitimately had a team that could compete last year. Compete for what, Im not sure what they were capable of but that was the makings of a good team and then COVID hit and they still had a shot, but the bats choked against the Braves.

So here we are this year and the Front Office didnt invest even just a little into the bullpen. Very aggrevating.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Mustang said:

India is a loner.  He goes about his business, stays to himself and doesn't yuck it up with the other players.  He is a GOOD baseball player.  It seems to make it in Cincinnati you've got to hug up on Jim Day, and become one of the Big Three, Big Four etc.,  I like the guy as a player, BUT the other Reds are going to play around him and not with him, which is bad chemistry.

To his credit, how many of you feel, that if he were a veteran player and not a rookie, he would be, or would have been on the Moustakas IR list plan????  By our talking heads talking about him "playing through injuries" just means he doesn't want to jeopardize a position or spot on a roster that he hasn't been established on.

Just curious because Bally Sports has screwed up my season, but how do you know this about India? How do you know he's not one of fhe boys?

I feel like fans like India quite a bit.

38 minutes ago, MJAlltheWay24 said:

The Reds window of the rebuild was last year and it got screwed up by a pandemic. Thats not me making excuses. They legitimately had a team that could compete last year. Compete for what, Im not sure what they were capable of but that was the makings of a good team and then COVID hit and they still had a shot, but the bats choked against the Braves.

 

 

 

 

Keep drinkin' the Red kool-aid. 

9 hours ago, Mustang said:

Keep drinkin' the Red kool-aid. 

They finished 2020 above .500 and made the playoffs (granted the playoff structure was adjusted).  Given the starting rotation they had last year, which included the Cy Young Award Winner, I don't think it's far fetched to believe that if they had a full baseball season in 2020, that Reds fans would have been pleased with the overall result.  That was their window.  

I don't think that's drinking kool-aid at all.  They had the potential of a pretty good team last year but the season got screwed up by COVID-19 and now they aren't as good as they were last year and probably going to go downhill again over the next couple years after they sell off high caliber guys again soon (maybe).

First of all, some of us have to get in today’s world.  There are no dynasties in baseball anymore and there are not going to be because of free agency.  The Reds have more than enough to compete if the bullpen could be upgraded. 

1 hour ago, MJAlltheWay24 said:

They finished 2020 above .500 and made the playoffs (granted the playoff structure was adjusted).  Given the starting rotation they had last year, which included the Cy Young Award Winner, I don't think it's far fetched to believe that if they had a full baseball season in 2020, that Reds fans would have been pleased with the overall result.  That was their window.  

 

Point well taken about Trevor Bauer.  He fell in our lap but was a huge bonus.

I understand out budget, etc., but would have really liked to have seen us make an effort to keep him here.  I also would have appreciated if he would have shown us some luv by repaying the favor and given us another year or too here in Cincinnati.

I know that we don't have he mega-bucks to go out and buy top shelf talent, BUT when he is already in our fold , I think we should have made an effort to pay those top bucks to keep him here.  In his current situation, if he had it to do over again, he'd probably agree.

40 minutes ago, Jack of all Trades said:

First of all, some of us have to get in today’s world.  There are no dynasties in baseball anymore and there are not going to be because of free agency.  The Reds have more than enough to compete if the bullpen could be upgraded. 

I understand, but I also think we deserve a better product than we have been given night after night, year after year, from not only the Reds, but also from the competition.

If the bullpen is the problem, which it is, then why not extend the "magic number" of pitches for starters from 100 to 125, and tell them that their new goal is to pitch a complete game???   Are they incapable, OR is this a Players Union issue.  The PU already has them bootstrapped by having to honor every pseudo "injury" that they claim to have, and that is another big part of our problem - Everybody is on the George Foster plan, trying to squeeze a few more years out of their careers.

And who says that a reliever who has just completed a 1-2-3 inning must be replaced in the next inning.  Maybe thinking out of the box is as simple as thinking back into the old box.  

12 minutes ago, Mustang said:

I understand, but I also think we deserve a better product than we have been given night after night, year after year, from not only the Reds, but also from the competition.

If the bullpen is the problem, which it is, then why not extend the "magic number" of pitches for starters from 100 to 125, and tell them that their new goal is to pitch a complete game???   Are they incapable, OR is this a Players Union issue.  The PU already has them bootstrapped by having to honor every pseudo "injury" that they claim to have, and that is another big part of our problem - Everybody is on the George Foster plan, trying to squeeze a few more years out of their careers.

And who says that a reliever who has just completed a 1-2-3 inning must be replaced in the next inning.  Maybe thinking out of the box is as simple as thinking back into the old box.  

Now these comments I can definitely agree with.  I have said many times that David Bell gets too caught up in the analytics and not the feel of the game.  I too would like to know where the 100 pitch number comes from.  The thing with baseball is the same as the world we now live in unfortunately and that is everything is driven by electronics of some sort.  

I think one problem is the contract of Votto, he has all the money and the Reds can't sign anyone or keep anyone that that can help this team.