Notre Dame showing it never needed a conference

 

 

I forget if this article was posted on this site. It's from a few weeks ago. But it relevant because in another thread it was discussed Notre Dame should join a conference. I think this article articulates perfectly why it wouldn't be in Notre Dame's best interest.

I agree with the premise that Notre Dame football does not need a conference. However, the last half of the article is just wrong. Notre Dame does not work with a smaller recruiting pool and does not have a deficit of "in state" type recruits. I mentioned this in another thread on here. There are 70 million Catholics in the United States the vast majority of whom consider Notre Dame their school. I argue there is no school in the US with a bigger pool than that. Now, there is the higher academic standard which does reduce the pool. So let's knock it down to the top 25%. That leaves 17.5 million Catholics. The entire state of Ohio has 11.6 million people. Assume every person in Ohio is an OSU fan and ND has a much larger pool to pull from. Michigan population is 9.9 million. ND has a bigger pool than any state school. And that actually is another reason why ND football doesn't need a conference. It is why ND football has been on their own TV deal for over 30 years. No other school could get a deal like that. No one. It is because there are 70 million Catholics who love ND football.

I agree with the premise that Notre Dame football does not need a conference. However, the last half of the article is just wrong. Notre Dame does not work with a smaller recruiting pool and does not have a deficit of "in state" type recruits. I mentioned this in another thread on here. There are 70 million Catholics in the United States the vast majority of whom consider Notre Dame their school. I argue there is no school in the US with a bigger pool than that. Now, there is the higher academic standard which does reduce the pool. So let's knock it down to the top 25%. That leaves 17.5 million Catholics. The entire state of Ohio has 11.6 million people. Assume every person in Ohio is an OSU fan and ND has a much larger pool to pull from. Michigan population is 9.9 million. ND has a bigger pool than any state school. And that actually is another reason why ND football doesn't need a conference. It is why ND football has been on their own TV deal for over 30 years. No other school could get a deal like that. No one. It is because there are 70 million Catholics who love ND football.

 

The recruiting pool is based on in state talent. But the point was if ND was in a conference they would not be able to properly take advantage of that Catholic base. The freedom allows them to be creative with the schedule and play in all the High School hot beds.

For right now, there is no reason for Notre Dame to join a conference. If they did, the Big 10 would be arguably the best fit because their natural rivals Purdue, Michigan State, and Michigan are there. However, I don't see Big 10 expansion happening and the Irish could end up in the ACC where they are required to play 5 opponents a year in football.

For right now, there is no reason for Notre Dame to join a conference. If they did, the Big 10 would be arguably the best fit because their natural rivals Purdue, Michigan State, and Michigan are there. However, I don't see Big 10 expansion happening and the Irish could end up in the ACC where they are required to play 5 opponents a year in football.

 

Notre Dame joining the Big 10 makes no sense. They already recruit the Midwest. If they joined a conference it should be the ACC or SEC.

I've read before that the majority of ND players aren't Catholic...so I'm not sure if that it as big of an advantage as thought.

Edited December 8, 20187 yr by Jumper_Dad

Answer this one question: if ND had lost 1 game this year would they have made the playoffs? Would they have made the playoffs any of the previous 4 years with 1 loss? The answer to both of these is no. Now ask yourself the same question about a team that’s a 1 loss conference champ. Anyone that doesn’t think it’s in ND’s best interest to be in a conference is just wrong IMO. Having to go undefeated to have any chance of winning a national championship is not a good path to take.

Answer this one question: if ND had lost 1 game this year would they have made the playoffs? Would they have made the playoffs any of the previous 4 years with 1 loss? The answer to both of these is no. Now ask yourself the same question about a team that’s a 1 loss conference champ. Anyone that doesn’t think it’s in ND’s best interest to be in a conference is just wrong IMO. Having to go undefeated to have any chance of winning a national championship is not a good path to take.

This is nothing more than another reason that the current playoff system is extremely flawed. It needs to be 8 teams at least, preferably 16.

This is nothing more than another reason that the current playoff system is extremely flawed. It needs to be 8 teams at least, preferably 16.

But that’s not the point. You can say the playoff should be expanded all you want. The fact of the matter remains is we have at least 5 more years of 4 teams. For at least the next 5 years, ND is doing a disservice to themselves by having to go undefeated to win a national championship. Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc. don’t have to worry about that. Even in 5 years if the playoff expands to 8 teams, the first round will likely be played on the home field of the higher seed. Notre Dame will still be at a disadvantage by having to go on the road. ND not being in a conference is just stubbornness.

But that’s not the point. You can say the playoff should be expanded all you want. The fact of the matter remains is we have at least 5 more years of 4 teams. For at least the next 5 years, ND is doing a disservice to themselves by having to go undefeated to win a national championship. Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc. don’t have to worry about that. Even in 5 years if the playoff expands to 8 teams, the first round will likely be played on the home field of the higher seed. Notre Dame will still be at a disadvantage by having to go on the road. ND not being in a conference is just stubbornness.

 

Think what you will, I'll accept their "stubbornness". Joining a conference does them no good IMO. Your claim is that they will get snubbed if they have one loss since there is no chance to play for a conference championship, that if they have a loss then they can win their conference championship and get into the playoff. Is one loss OSU and Big 10 Conference Champion in the playoff this year?

Think what you will, I'll accept their "stubbornness". Joining a conference does them no good IMO. Your claim is that they will get snubbed if they have one loss since there is no chance to play for a conference championship, that if they have a loss then they can win their conference championship and get into the playoff. Is one loss OSU and Big 10 Conference Champion in the playoff this year?

OSU isn’t in the playoff this year because ND went undefeated. If ND had 1 loss they would have been behind Georgia and Ohio State. How can you honestly say that it’s a good thing ND has to go undefeated to make the playoff? Whether it would have been 2 loss Georgia or 1 loss Ohio State, a team in a conference would have gotten in over a 1 loss ND team. Why does Notre Dames independence mean so much to the fans? Notre Dame is basically an ACC school, but they aren’t recieving the number 1 benefit of being in the ACC which is the ability to win a conference championship. So the ACC teams get the resume booster of getting to play Notre Dame, but they also have the ability to lose to Notre Dame and still make the playoff. So yeah 2018 it worked out for them because they were undefeated, but having to go undefeated is not a sustainable plan for Notre Dame.

OSU isn’t in the playoff this year because ND went undefeated. If ND had 1 loss they would have been behind Georgia and Ohio State. How can you honestly say that it’s a good thing ND has to go undefeated to make the playoff? Whether it would have been 2 loss Georgia or 1 loss Ohio State, a team in a conference would have gotten in over a 1 loss ND team. Why does Notre Dames independence mean so much to the fans? Notre Dame is basically an ACC school, but they aren’t recieving the number 1 benefit of being in the ACC which is the ability to win a conference championship. So the ACC teams get the resume booster of getting to play Notre Dame, but they also have the ability to lose to Notre Dame and still make the playoff. So yeah 2018 it worked out for them because they were undefeated, but having to go undefeated is not a sustainable plan for Notre Dame.

 

I'm telling you that winning a conference championship doesn't guarantee you a chance to be in the playoffs. If it did, OSU and UCF would be in. Didn't help them this year, didn't help them last year. As a fan, I'm fine with what ND decides to do. If they feel it will benefit them, they'll join a conference. Obviously, they don't feel it benefits them.

I'm telling you that winning a conference championship doesn't guarantee you a chance to be in the playoffs. If it did, OSU and UCF would be in. Didn't help them this year, didn't help them last year. As a fan, I'm fine with what ND decides to do. If they feel it will benefit them, they'll join a conference. Obviously, they don't feel it benefits them.

UCF doesn’t count. Being a 1 loss power 5 team that won a conference championship game has earned that team a spot in the playoff every single year until this one. You know what else happened this year? ND going undefeated for the first time in the playoff era. Notre Dame is only hurting themselves by not being in a conference, it’s not rocket science. A 1 loss ND team is never going to get in over a 1 loss power 5 champ. Even if Washington State had won the PAC 12 this year with 1 loss, they would have gotten in over ND. The committee has shown time and time again that the 13th game matters when comparing teams with equal records. That’s not me saying it, it’s the committee. Look no further than Ohio State the first year of the playoff. If TCU and Baylor had played against each other in a conference championship game, the winner would have stayed ahead of Ohio State in the rankings. Conference championships matter to the committee because they help differentiate teams that are otherwise indistinguishable. In the event of a tie the advantage is always going to go to the team that won a conference championship unless there is a head to head matchup to go off of. Staying with 2018, I’m not sure what the committee would have done with the ND/ Michigan debate if both had 1 loss but Michigan was a conference champ. I think ND would have been ahead of them, but even if they were ahead of Michigan, you know who else would have been ahead of Michigan? Georgia. You know who would have gotten in over Notre Dame and Michigan? Georgia. So no matter what scenario you look at, Notre Dame is on the outside looking in if they had lost a game this year. But had Notre Dame been in the ACC, they likely would likely be in the Coastal division to divide up the teams more evenly in the conference. Let’s say Notre Dame had lost to Michigan week 1, but they go on to win the rest of their games and beat Clemson in the ACC Championship. Notre Dame is in the playoff this year with 1 loss. Presently, had Michigan won that game week 1, Notre Dame would have been completely irrelevant with regards to the playoff the first week of the season. How could anyone think this is a good scenario to be in? Even taking a wholistic view of NDs schedule this year, there are a ton of big time programs on that schedule. FSU, USC, Stanford, VT, and Michigan. That looked like a daunting schedule before the season but only one of those teams lived up to the hype. Had the rest of those teams at least played up to the talent level on their rosters, Notre Dame probably loses a game this season simply because that schedule was so tough. I’m not sure any team in the country could have had made it through that schedule unscathed except for Bama. So yes, the stars aligned for ND this season. They caught Michigan at the right time, the rest of their schedule underachieved, and they won all their games. Good luck sustaining that.

But that’s not the point. You can say the playoff should be expanded all you want. The fact of the matter remains is we have at least 5 more years of 4 teams. For at least the next 5 years, ND is doing a disservice to themselves by having to go undefeated to win a national championship. Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc. don’t have to worry about that. Even in 5 years if the playoff expands to 8 teams, the first round will likely be played on the home field of the higher seed. Notre Dame will still be at a disadvantage by having to go on the road. ND not being in a conference is just stubbornness.

 

Stubbornness? They haven't sniffed a national championship but twice in the last 30 years, yet they get on primetime TV as much as Alabama and Ohio State.

 

Why is that?

 

ND has the largest fan base in college football. A fan base that stays loyal regardless of whether they make the playoff or not. Notre Dame Stadium is packed every home game and when ND is in town, you are guaranteed a sellout, regardless of their record. The Catholics come out of the woodwork to see their team.

 

Depending on the reporting service you prefer to reference, they rank from 1st to 9th in yearly college merchandise sales. Yet, they rarely compete for a national title.

 

And above all else, they have their very own major network deal to televise their home games. A deal that pays them well and does not required them to share any of that deal with 13 to 15 other schools. They also get piece of the ESPN/Fox/CFP pie.

 

It would be insane, from a financial point (and that is what college football is all about, isn't it), for them to join a conference. They are in a unique situation and they take advantage of it.

 

That's not stubbornness. That's practicality and intelligence.

BTW, @LIPTON BASH, the link is not working for me, so I haven't read the article.