The point is that there is no valid proof that this research will produce anything positive. There is, however, reason to believe that it will further legitimate abortion. Regardless of what Fox may claim, the research is going on now. There are sufficient samples to do the research. The issue goes much deeper than curing Michael Fox. Do we further dehumanize the conception, pregnancy, and birth processes for this purpose? The answer in a country founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs must be a firm "no".

 

Limbaugh's comments are getting the response that he predicted. I heard his remarks. He questioned Fox's timing, methods, and statements. He did not attack Fox. Of course, since all of this is so political, it is, I suppose, natural that all those with left leanings would jump at the opportunity to be "appalled". On the other hand, I doubt that it got any extra votes.

 

In present day politics, both sides are less than honest. Each will do whatever it takes for votes. Fox was merely one of many tools for that purpose. His statement and methods were not honest.

scooterbob: I tried -- I really did -- but I can't find a single factual statement in your last post. The fact is, there is proof that this research holds promise. But all new discoveries that have benefited mankind have begun somewhere, and without precedent.

 

Secondly, this research will have absolutely NO effect on abortion whatsoever! The stem cells would be taken from fetuses that would have simply ended up in a garbage can -- with or without stem-cell research. Is that your idea of respect for life? To do so would most certainly dehumanize the conception, pregnancy, and birth processes. This lack of respect for human life (both born and unborn) is anti-Christian and barbaric.

 

To deny those that are suffering and who long for a better life, simply to serve one's own sense of piety is, in my opinion, selfish and sinful. There are stem-cell lines available now; but they are not good enough. There needs to be more. It's the only way we can know what miracles await us.

 

Life is a God's miracle, and God performs miracles every day. He does so, not only by his own hand, but through the hands and minds of doctors and scientists.

 

I was a big fan of Rush Limbaugh. I used to watch his show religiously. But I think we know that Rush isn't perfect, and he often let's his agenda get in the way of total honesty. I heard his comments with my own ears. He said that Michael was either, intentionally skipping his medication, or faking. Listen to it again -- those were his words. If that isn't an attack, I'm not sure what qualifies as such.

 

Now what bothers me the most about your post is the odd suggestion that this is all somehow just a political move.

 

Can you possibly be serious?!

 

Do you seriously think that everyone who is rightfully appalled by this is simply some bleeding heart liberal with an anti-Bush agenda? If so, you must not have met me. You must not have seen the Bush signs in my yard in 2000 AND 2004. I assure you, I hardy lean to the left. But neither am I a right-wing extremist. Common sense is my approach to politics. And common sense is rarely (if ever) found at either end of the spectrum.

 

Michael J. Fox is a man fighting for his life...and he's not alone! There are countless fathers, mothers, children and helpless little babies (born and unborn) whose lives and livelihoods depend on the miracles this research could bring -- and at the cost of not one unborn child.

 

To cheapen this debate by lowering it to the level of a mere political game is a travesty, and an affront to any real respect for human life. This is not about politics. It's about health...happiness...quality of life...and life itself. It has nothing to do with politics -- and everything to do with fathers, mothers, husbands, wives, and children. Perhaps, one day, even your own.

 

Can we turn our back on the promise of stem-cell research in the name of politics? The answer in a country founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs must be a firm "no".

Here is what Rush says was his intent:

 

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_102406/content/rush_is_right.guest.html

scooterbob: I tried -- I really did -- but I can't find a single factual statement in your last post. The fact is, there is proof that this research holds promise. But all new discoveries that have benefited mankind have begun somewhere, and without precedent.

 

Secondly, this research will have absolutely NO effect on abortion whatsoever! The stem cells would be taken from fetuses that would have simply ended up in a garbage can -- with or without stem-cell research. Is that your idea of respect for life? To do so would most certainly dehumanize the conception, pregnancy, and birth processes. This lack of respect for human life (both born and unborn) is anti-Christian and barbaric.

 

To deny those that are suffering and who long for a better life, simply to serve one's own sense of piety is, in my opinion, selfish and sinful. There are stem-cell lines available now; but they are not good enough. There needs to be more. It's the only way we can know what miracles await us.

 

Life is a God's miracle, and God performs miracles every day. He does so, not only by his own hand, but through the hands and minds of doctors and scientists.

 

I was a big fan of Rush Limbaugh. I used to watch his show religiously. But I think we know that Rush isn't perfect, and he often let's his agenda get in the way of total honesty. I heard his comments with my own ears. He said that Michael was either, intentionally skipping his medication, or faking. Listen to it again -- those were his words. If that isn't an attack, I'm not sure what qualifies as such.

 

Now what bothers me the most about your post is the odd suggestion that this is all somehow just a political move.

 

Can you possibly be serious?!

 

Do you seriously think that everyone who is rightfully appalled by this is simply some bleeding heart liberal with an anti-Bush agenda? If so, you must not have met me. You must not have seen the Bush signs in my yard in 2000 AND 2004. I assure you, I hardy lean to the left. But neither am I a right-wing extremist. Common sense is my approach to politics. And common sense is rarely (if ever) found at either end of the spectrum.

 

Michael J. Fox is a man fighting for his life...and he's not alone! There are countless fathers, mothers, children and helpless little babies (born and unborn) whose lives and livelihoods depend on the miracles this research could bring -- and at the cost of not one unborn child.

 

To cheapen this debate by lowering it to the level of a mere political game is a travesty, and an affront to any real respect for human life. This is not about politics. It's about health...happiness...quality of life...and life itself. It has nothing to do with politics -- and everything to do with fathers, mothers, husbands, wives, and children. Perhaps, one day, even your own.

 

Can we turn our back on the promise of stem-cell research in the name of politics? The answer in a country founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs must be a firm "no".

 

Fantastic post, BF...I can feel the passion in your words...

Birdsfan, it appears that we have a far different understanding of Judeo-Christian beliefs. I stand by what I stated. I think we should be more concerned with the fact that all children, once conceived, have potential. That potential should take precedence over any perceived "potential" offered by this radical research.

 

The potential from this rests in the valid possibility (probability when the "boundaries of research" expand) that abortion will become more popular in order to provide for the "common good". My beliefs require that I oppose that. From my reading of the scriptures and supporting sources, I think it is safe to say that I am not alone in my beliefs. I cannot support the possible sacrifice of a preborn human being for the "possibility" that someone else may receive some felief for his or her burden. That certainly includes Michael Fox.

So BF, did Fox cheapen the debate by lowering it to a political game when he participated in a misleading (at best) ad?

So BF, did Fox cheapen the debate by lowering it to a political game when he participated in a misleading (at best) ad?

Had there been anything misleading about it...yes.

 

I don't think he's doing these ads because he loves the candidates. He's doing it because he has the ultimate stake in the issue.

Well, according to the link, Limbaugh may have made up a comment attributed to Fox about his sometimes not taking medication to accentuate his condition. I wouldn't doubt for a minute that Limbaugh just concocted it.

 

More or less, he accused Fox of doing it ... and probably without any evidence other than his own twisted thinking.

 

It seems Limbaugh need to worry about his own "meds" problems ie.. Oxycontin abuse and Viagra drug muling over the border.

 

Start with the man in the mirror Rush.

Funny how everyone is ignoring post #25 which would backup Limbaugh's ascertions.

Funny how everyone is ignoring post #25 which would backup Limbaugh's ascertions.

He appeared without medication, and God bless him for doing so! That in no way makes him a liar or a faker. If anything, it makes him even less of either.

Funny how everyone is ignoring post #25 which would backup Limbaugh's ascertions.

I'm not ignoring it.

 

That statement (made by Fox) was in regards to a previous appearance. That is not to say that he didn't do the same thing on this occasion. He may have not taken his medicine, or he might have (none of us posting on this board know for certain - nor does Limbaugh).

 

Regardless of whether he took his medication or not, Limbaugh's comments were clearly intended to cast doubt on Fox's condition. Would it have been more palatable for Limbaugh had Fox made the ad while only shaking like a leaf on a tree, rather than swaying from side to side, barely able to stay in front of the camera? Would it not have been just as dishonest of Fox to medicate himself (perhaps heavily), just for the sake of downplaying his condition, while literally begging for people to support his cause?

 

Limbaugh has demonstrated (time and again) that he is not about to let the truth impinge on his crusade to spin every story to paint Democrats as the spawn of Satan himself. In this instance, he has simply followed in the footsteps of Ann Coulter, and her statements about the widows of the victims of 9/11.

 

If someone doesn't agree with the position that Fox is taking (as Scooterbob outlined) then that is fine.

 

But let's at least be able to admit that Limbaugh is playing to his audience, by attacking a man with a debilitating, fatal condition - for the sake of a few ratings points and potential political gain. Anything less is simply justification and self delusion.

 

 

Frances

He appeared without medication, and God bless him for doing so! That in no way makes him a liar or a faker. If anything, it makes him even less of either.

 

Exactly,, if I had a disease and wanted funding for a cure I would want the people responsible for acquiring the funding to see how people who aren't millionares have to cope with a disease. Please remember, Fox's med's cost more than most people make in a year.

 

What bothered me is what Limbaugh said: "Please remember that Michael J. Fox is an actor who acts". What's that supposed to mean?

 

Kudo's for Michael J. Fox!

He appeared without medication, and God bless him for doing so! That in no way makes him a liar or a faker. If anything, it makes him even less of either.

But the ad that he did and for other Dems is absolutely a lie. The whole stem cell argument is a lie. Stem cell research, even embryonic, is not illegal anywhere that I'm aware of. The only legislation regarding stem cells is that federal dollars would not be used for embryonic stem cell research. But that's not what you hear. You hear that Bush and others are against stem cell research. Totally false. Bush actually provided the first federal funding for stem cell research.

 

I suffer from macular degeneration. There is no fix. One day, I will be unable to read all this blather. There is hope that stem cell treatment might one day cure this. But I have seen the research. Cures are at least a decade away. Embryonic stem cells show no more promise than cord-blood and placenta stem cells. Gene therapy is actually showing much more progress than stem cell research and Fox knows that. Stem cells have shown a dismaying talent for turning into tumors.

 

What I hate most about the stem cell argument is the fact that a lot of people are getting their hopes up for a quick fix to their medical problems. It ain't going to happen. Research is ongoing and federally funded, but its not the magic pill that you can buy tomorrow. Yet the politicians don't mind giving false hope to the ill, in order to be reelected.

Let me ask this question - what would the reaction have been, had Bill Maher offered the possibility that Reagan was exagerating the effects of Parkinson's disease for political gain?

 

 

Frances

But the ad that he did and for other Dems is absolutely a lie. The whole stem cell argument is a lie.

 

I don't understand how anyone could call his commercial "a lie." It's completely factual.

 

Stem cell research, even embryonic, is not illegal anywhere that I'm aware of. The only legislation regarding stem cells is that federal dollars would not be used for embryonic stem cell research.

 

But that lack of funding and blocking of further cell lines is making the research illegal by indirect means.

 

You hear that Bush and others are against stem cell research. Totally false. Bush actually provided the first federal funding for stem cell research.

 

I know W. is in favor of stem cell research. But the religious right is preventing him from supporting the kind of research that needs to be done.

 

But I have seen the research. Cures are at least a decade away. Embryonic stem cells show no more promise than cord-blood and placenta stem cells.

 

Cures will be a lot further away if the scientists' hands are tied. And we will never know exactly how much promise embryonic stem cells hold, until they're able to be fully studied in a meaningful way.

 

What I hate most about the stem cell argument is the fact that a lot of people are getting their hopes up for a quick fix to their medical problems. It ain't going to happen. Research is ongoing and federally funded, but its not the magic pill that you can buy tomorrow.

 

There will be no fix (quick or otherwise) without proper and unhindered research! Research is ongoing -- to the extent it's being allowed. More could and SHOULD be done.

 

Yet the politicians don't mind giving false hope to the ill, in order to be reelected.

 

Again, I think for the right-wing extremists to paint this as a political game is just, well...sad. But hopefully, the research going on at the University of Louisville and elsewhere will make this a moot point. Their discoveries may take embryos completely out of the equation. That would be great! But for now, we need to forge ahead on all fronts in this battle.