Did your old conceal and carry paperwork suddenly become invalid? Or did you accidentally run it through the wash?

For range enjoyment, I like the .45 ACP but not for self defence. Due to the .45 ACP being a slow moving subsonic round, it hasn't benefited much from advances in hallow points which have been dependent on higher speeds. In modern ammo, the .45 ACP has approximately the same foot/pound power as the .40 S&W but since it is a fatter round, you can hold fewer in the gun. So I don't use it for self defense. Some people call the .45 ACP the .45 AARP implying it is an older round which other rounds have passed up. If I want a powerful semiauto round I go for the 10mm. If you really want Semi Auto power, you could always go for the .45 Super, lol.

 

10mm is overkill for a self defense, unless an Elk or moose is chasing you.

10mm is overkill for a self defense, unless an Elk or moose is chasing you.

 

Most ammunition testing has rated 10mm approximately the same as .357 Magnum which numerous police departments carried for decades during the revolver days so I really don't understand the notion of 10mm being overkill unless for decades all those departments were carrying overkill ammunition too. Are .357 Mag and 10mm at the upper end for service calibers, yes but that also means if you can control the round, which I can, it has a far better likelihood of not requiring follow up shots which 9mm and other service calibers at the lower end often will with a determined or drug influenced attacker.

From what I've heard, the 9mm has done more than close the gap. I've read it will out perform the .40

 

I wonder how? If you have two similar projectiles moving at approximately the speed, it would make sense the larger, heavier and thicker projectile would have a little bit better ballistics.

I wonder how? If you have two similar projectiles moving at approximately the speed, it would make sense the larger, heavier and thicker projectile would have a little bit better ballistics.

 

I don't have the numbers in front of me and haven't owned a 9mm in years, but I believe with the introduction of +P and +P+ ammunition, those loads are actually traveling quite a bit quicker than the .40 cal. More along the speed of your 10mm I would imagine. I'll do some research on it when I get time, but that's my line of thinking.

 

That said, I've never been a big fan of the 9mm. Sure, it gives you more rounds, but in general you shouldn't need that many rounds if your a decent shot. I keep a S&W .357 mag with a 6 inch barrel on the night stand with 6 rounds of .357 hollow points, along with a .38/.357 stub nose loaded with 5 rounds of .38 +P. The .38 would be my first option if needed, with the .357 available if I couldn't get the job done with the .38.

I don't have the numbers in front of me and haven't owned a 9mm in years, but I believe with the introduction of +P and +P+ ammunition, those loads are actually traveling quite a bit quicker than the .40 cal. More along the speed of your 10mm I would imagine. I'll do some research on it when I get time, but that's my line of thinking.

 

That said, I've never been a big fan of the 9mm. Sure, it gives you more rounds, but in general you shouldn't need that many rounds if your a decent shot. I keep a S&W .357 mag with a 6 inch barrel on the night stand with 6 rounds of .357 hollow points, along with a .38/.357 stub nose loaded with 5 rounds of .38 +P. The .38 would be my first option if needed, with the .357 available if I couldn't get the job done with the .38.

 

Not everyone is a great shot and most people shoot worse in stressful situations so I fail to see how more ammo is bad in anyway.

Not everyone is a great shot and most people shoot worse in stressful situations so I fail to see how more ammo is bad in anyway.

 

I get that and I'm not saying having more ammo is a bad thing at all. But in general, if I can't get the job done in 10 shots I'm probably a dead man anyway. Typically if you ever need to use a firearm your fighting off an attacker, not a gang.

 

EDIT: I'm speaking from a civilian point of view. Law enforcement should have as many rounds as possible at their disposal. But they have AR-15's for those scenarios.

I get that and I'm not saying having more ammo is a bad thing at all. But in general, if I can't get the job done in 10 shots I'm probably a dead man anyway. Typically if you ever need to use a firearm your fighting off an attacker, not a gang.

 

EDIT: I'm speaking from a civilian point of view. Law enforcement should have as many rounds as possible at their disposal. But they have AR-15's for those scenarios.

I get what you're saying but disagree. I sure as heck don't want to end up dead because of lack of bullets. Like the one armed guy that had like 6 guns in Unforgiven said, "I don't want to get shot from lack of shooting back"

I get what you're saying but disagree. I sure as heck don't want to end up dead because of lack of bullets. Like the one armed guy that had like 6 guns in Unforgiven said, "I don't want to get shot from lack of shooting back"

 

 

I don't disagree at all. But again it's still not likely that it happens that way, except maybe in the movies. I guess how many rounds you need in a gun comes down to how many guns you have at your disposal. I feel comfortable with the two handguns giving me 11 shots next to the bed. But if it came down to it there are more available to me in the same room. I've just never felt the need to sleep with them all right by my side. A lot of people that break into homes at night aren't even armed, they're drug addicts that would sell a gun as soon as they stole it.

I don't have the numbers in front of me and haven't owned a 9mm in years, but I believe with the introduction of +P and +P+ ammunition, those loads are actually traveling quite a bit quicker than the .40 cal. More along the speed of your 10mm I would imagine. I'll do some research on it when I get time, but that's my line of thinking.

 

That said, I've never been a big fan of the 9mm. Sure, it gives you more rounds, but in general you shouldn't need that many rounds if your a decent shot. I keep a S&W .357 mag with a 6 inch barrel on the night stand with 6 rounds of .357 hollow points, along with a .38/.357 stub nose loaded with 5 rounds of .38 +P. The .38 would be my first option if needed, with the .357 available if I couldn't get the job done with the .38.

 

On average it takes 3 hits on a person to stop them.

Most ammunition testing has rated 10mm approximately the same as .357 Magnum which numerous police departments carried for decades during the revolver days so I really don't understand the notion of 10mm being overkill unless for decades all those departments were carrying overkill ammunition too. Are .357 Mag and 10mm at the upper end for service calibers, yes but that also means if you can control the round, which I can, it has a far better likelihood of not requiring follow up shots which 9mm and other service calibers at the lower end often will with a determined or drug influenced attacker.

 

I jusr think they are more of a need driven round vs practical. I like big calibers also, you might just be one of those guys who learned to plink with a .41 mag.

On average it takes 3 hits on a person to stop them.

 

With what caliber? Any?

With what caliber? Any?

 

Ok maybe 2 with a .44 or .50. Most people survive pistol wounds, that's why we use rifles for combat.

Not everyone is a great shot and most people shoot worse in stressful situations so I fail to see how more ammo is bad in anyway.

 

I am sure a situation where one had to fire a concealed weapon would result in a lousy shot. But I'm also pretty sure the person you are shooting at would be in the same boat and if he/she did not have a weapon it would be the end of the confrontation whether you hit them or not.

With what caliber? Any?

 

My guess is the common a service rounds i.e. 9mm, .40, .45 ACP, .38 Spc, etc.