WHY BASH THE SCHOOLS WHO PLAY JUNIORS.

 

I DO BELIEVE THE J-V HAS ALWAYS BEEN CALLED AND STOOD FOR "JUNIOR VARSITY", I CANNOT EVER REMEMBER ANYONE CALLING IT SOPHMORE- VARSITY OR MAYBE THEY DO IN CINCY AND AT X.

Three of a kind, welcome to the site. Please avoid using ALL CAPS in the future, thanks.

 

Yes, I did delete a portion of your post -- please don't put it back. Thanks! Again, welcome aboard.

I simply think that if you are seeing considerable action on Friday, that if your school plays Juniors down, then you shouldn't "play Down". Allow someone who isn't seeing action on Friday night to get experience.

For those of you new to BGP or not familiar with the T/X rivalry, this is one of the many explanations Xmen bring up in an effort to take away from Trinity's success. Unfortunately for us all, this is one of the areas they excelled beyond being just nearly good.

 

ANY and EVERY year Trinity wins a big JV game, they cry "you play juniors". Yet they choose not to play juniors. I thought Glaser wanted to play all the kids. Maybe Beatty should get on the radio waves and tell "all those 8th grades that want to play football, including their junior season, should come to Trinity". Perhaps X could add “we don’t play juniors in JV games” to their long list of excuses when they lose the big games. “We just did not have enough experience”.

 

I wasn’t too sure the win over Moeller was that big a deal until I saw this thread. If an Xmen has started pulling this stuff out, Trinity’s win must be a big deal. Congratulations ROCKS!!! Way to make nearly the entire state of Kentucky proud!

 

:dancingpa

 

Yes...thank you. :thumb: This whole thing reminds me of Judge Smails trying to pick Al Czervik's replacement in Caddyshack. A lot of whining & gnashing of teeth over being forced to play against Danny Noonan instead of Spaulding.

Sorry, I'm not buying either.

 

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Okay, you're not buying- Let's agree to disagree. I would check out the site I posted on the new thread Ohio versus the USA going on next weekend in Cincy. There are the top teams in the nation all with between 12-17 returning starters. That isn't from playing juniors in non varsity games. Check out the Texas High site-Their JV team plays 14 games a year!! Lakeland has 8 recruits sign with SEC schools besides their best player. It shows the difference in the programs that Cincy's big three of Elder, Moeller and Cincy St X take on DeLasalle Calif( #23) Bynes( SC ) #2, and Lakeland ( # 1) next weekend while our big three have open dates and a game against Southern. Maybe with the new classes we can have the flexibility in scheduling to reach these types of games.

Btw, any word on troubles completing the schedules for next year that you've heard?

Sorry, I'm not buying either.

 

Yes it's nice to beat a strong team from out of the state but in the great scheme of things other then bragging right it doesn't reall help achieve the ultimate goal, a STATE championship.

 

Wow. I would of thought the ultimate goal was to guide and educate kids to become better. Thanks but I am not buying either. Let' s just agree that there are two different philosophies.

Jimmyref, Let me throw a few facts out about the difference between Ohio and Kentucky high school football. Ohio is better. You won't get any aruement on this site even from Rock fans. In 2002 the Rocks played a very good Elder team (we won BTW). The first thing I noticed looking at the game roster was that they dressed just under 100 kids juniors and seniors only. I'm assuming they had 50 to 65 sophmores playing as well on their "reserve" team. I asked a couple of Elder guys that played there way back when and he said that some years they have HUNDREDS (yes thats plural) of freshmen "try-out" for football. All this from a school smaller than T or X. They do the things they do because of their circumstances, more power to them. So yes, we will have to agree to disagree on this matter because we are comparing apples to oranges.

I think this thread is very interesting. So much so I decided to call a former head reserve coach from Moeller on the phone and ask him about it. I have some random thoughts based on reading all of this thread and from talking to the coach.

 

1. First off, great thread jimmyref.

 

2. I like to think I am neutral and I never once got the feeling reading this thread that jimmyref was standing in judgement of T/X or any other school for that matter.

 

3. I think this is a topic to explore because as LSU said generally GCL teams are better than T and X (with some exceptions).

 

4. Now to what the Coach had to say. First of all we have some semantics issues here. In the old days in Ohio some teams played varsity games on Friday, junior-varsity games (made up of mostly juniors and some seniors that did not start on the varsity) on Saturday and reserve games on Monday using only sophomores.

 

5. The coach told me that in the GCL (at least when he coached) you were only allowed to play sophomores in league reserve games.

 

6. At Moeller they looked at the sophomore year as the pivotal year in each players career. Think about it in every school in KY on the average. How many freshman do they have play football each year and how many of those freshman play as sophomores? A lot of schools lose a lot of players between these two years and at Moeller they did their best to make sure that didn't happen.

 

7. The coach said their are two ways of developing talent that both have their merits, one is the "Kentucky way" if you will (my words) and that is to give juniors experience on the JV (remembering in most schools the JV and the reserve team are one in the same) and certainly this has worked very well for a lot of teams. The second way is to encourage as many sophomores as possible to play (reserve) football, give them their own ten games as a reward for all of their hard work. In addition, the juniors and seniors that don't start on the varsity make up your scout team to emulate each weeks opponent. The coach told me it was their experience at Moeller that if done "right" the scout team players actually develop more and are better prepared for future varsity action playing against their varsity every day in practice vs. playing down in reserve/jv games.

 

8. Although Moeller is no where near what they were in the 70's and early 80's they built arguably the best high school football program in America in a very short period of time. Therefore, the Moeller (GCL) way of doing things deserves a lot of recognition. Just maybe they are on to something that the rest of us can learn from.

I have a number of problems with the Ohio system. First, its hard to get 7 or 8 JV games let alone 10. Many Friday night opponents don't want to schedule JV games and I really don't blame them. Even if it were a "reserve" game this would be the case due to numbers at most schools. Now under the Ohio system you would need to add a whole new level of games needing ten additional opponents. Very unlikely in my opinion. I also have a hard time believing that there are a number of quality jr. and sr. players willing to be the scout team week in and week out with the reward of maybe playing some mop-up minutes if the game on Friday is a blowout. Two factors, the running clock (not to mention the fact that the coach gets blasted if the reserves actually run the offense and scores) and the fact that at most schools kids have many more choices. I know of a number of kids that have determined for whatever reason that they weren't going to be starters at football and decided to spend their time playing LaCrosse or fall Baseball or whatever. I also don't buy that just playing the scout team role is as good as playing games in preparing kids for varsity action in the future. Practice has changed a bunch since the 70s and 80s. There seems to be less and less full speed full contact in practice every year. In Moeller's world they had a schedule full of other schools in the same boat as them. In Kentucky X and T stand alone as the two biggest (by far) private schools. The point is that we play in a world very different than the one Moeller used to.

Finally, I'll give Moe their due. They were a great program, can't argue that. But, in my opinion its an apples to oranges comparison. I don't agree with many of my fellow T and X fans when they tell smaller schools around the state to just do what we do. In fact a few coaches have made the transition from T or X to a smaller school and not been able to duplicate the success. I feel its the same when the people contend that T and X should do it the GCL way. And while Moe had a great deal of success a decade or more ago, what have they done lately? Both T and X are currently more successful in Kentucky than Moeller is in Ohio. Maybe Moeller should try it the T way.

2. I like to think I am neutral and I never once got the feeling reading this thread that jimmyref was standing in judgement of T/X or any other school for that matter.

 

Thanks for the information Guru. I think it would be great to have four teams (frosh, res, jv, varsity), but it just does not happen around here.

 

But to your point about this thread not about slamming Trinity, you really have to be around the rivalry to understand. This stuff is brought out year after year, going back at least 20 years, if not longer. If you were to look at the achieves, you'd find X fans complaining that Trinity brought juniors to JV every year BPG has been on the net.

 

Why would teams play juniors on a JV game when there are enough sophomores to compete? I am referring to the Moeller-Trinity JV game this week.

 

It was stated that Stein was QB in another post. So with Stein, Z, and Netherton playing, those are juniors. B. Petrino had played alot on Friday night based on the posts so he had to play another game Saturday morning.

 

But there were no juniors that played against X and I would venture that there were no juniors that played for Moeller against Trinity this week.

 

Last year Trinity brought juniors Michael Labetz and Agyei Williams with them to play the big games on their JV schedule. Can someone explain to me why a junior would be asked to come play down in a JV game? Is it because the teams practice together in Louisville and typically they are different teams ( Varsity and Reserve) in Cincy? Isn't there a stigma for an upper classman to play down a level? Is a win in a JV game much more important than a sophomore getting the neccessary repetitions against a quality opponent?

 

Still, playing 10 games freshmen year and 8-10 JV year should prepare the junior for the varsity game so bringing him down for playing time seems a bit excessive. He's practicing with the varsity all week and should be ready to contribute to the varsity if needed.

I understand that Run but that is not the intent of jimmy's thread and I would prefer we stay focused on his intent and fight any X/T battles in another thread.

 

LSU, I think we agree on a lot here. In the case of the GCL there are enough big schools in the Cincy area to support their way of doing things. Also, since after T and X there is a big drop off in not only Louisville, but all of KY, the "Kentucky way" of approaching JV football is a good fit. However, if there were three or four more St. Xavier/Trinity type schools within driving distance of Louisville I would think the Moeller way would deserve some strong consideration.

I understand that Run but that is not the intent of jimmy's thread and I would prefer we stay focused on his intent and fight any X/T battles in another thread.

 

We will need to agree to disagree on intent.

 

One thing I will agree on, I know for a fact Trinity would love to have a fourth team. Frosh, Soph, JV, and Varsity with full schedules would be great. I'm not even sure the KHSAA would allow that if we wanted to. I know we have enough players. X does too.

 

However without local teams, the concept would not get off the ground. I wonder if the KHSAA would allow "reserve" and "jv" games between schools if they so choose. That would give T/X players one more game during pride week. Fun!

We will need to agree to disagree on intent.

 

No problem, you are closer to the situation than I am. However, please debate it in another thread.

If juniors who start on varsity are also starting at the same position on junior varsity, then that is wrong. Otherwise, get over it and play ball. (I think the game is still for the kids, correct?)

I agree. Starters on varsity don't play JV no matter their class.