jimmyref Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Growing up in Cincinnati, we called our group of sophomore players our "reserve" team. In Louisville they call it Junior varsity. It goes deeper than names though. It goes to philosphy. Why would teams play juniors on a JV game when there are enough sophomores to compete? I am referring to the Moeller-Trinity JV game this week. Here is a copy of the Post. Team win against a good Moe team. B. Petrino stood out on both sides of the ball. Z Petrovic was putting the balls almost completely out of the end zone on kick offs. He also nailed a 40 yarder (there about) to go up by 3 in OT after missing a 52 yarder with 30 sec's to go in the 4th. What a leg! Netherton caused a fumble on the last play of the game to seal the deal. It was stated that Stein was QB in another post. So with Stein, Z, and Netherton playing, those are juniors. B. Petrino had played alot on Friday night based on the posts so he had to play another game Saturday morning. Last year, Moeller played St X's JV and brought their 60 sophomores and beat St X with Ross Oltorik at QB who started the last 6 games for the varsity due to injury. But he was the Reserve QB. When he got pressed into service later into the season, he didn't play for the reserves any longer. There were 7 sophomores that had varsity gear on for Moeller and they took the bus from Louisville after the game to Findlay OHio to dress for the varsity (5 hours). But there were no juniors that played against X and I would venture that there were no juniors that played for Moeller against Trinity this week. Last year Trinity brought juniors Michael Labetz and Agyei Williams with them to play the big games on their JV schedule. Can someone explain to me why a junior would be asked to come play down in a JV game? Is it because the teams practice together in Louisville and typically they are different teams ( Varsity and Reserve) in Cincy? Isn't there a stigma for an upper classman to play down a level? Is a win in a JV game much more important than a sophomore getting the neccessary repetitions against a quality opponent? Wouldn't you bring a freshmen up if you were short on players? I know a lot of the public schools with small numbers on the varsity use the same players but if you have numbers...? Typically GCL teams have 2 freshmen teams so they play a total of 14 games freshmen year. Ky schools are restricted by the maximum of 10 games total on each level so having an A and B team would mean 5 games for each team. Still, playing 10 games freshmen year and 8-10 JV year should prepare the junior for the varsity game so bringing him down for playing time seems a bit excessive. He's practicing with the varsity all week and should be ready to contribute to the varsity if needed. If some of the veterans can shed some light on this, it would be appreciated. This is not intended as an anti Kentucky posting but I wanted to point out the diffferences in philosophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Golfer Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 I don't speak for Trinity but I know the programs that I have been apart of with East Jessamine and Dunbar a lot of the times we let Juniors play J.V. who do not see a lot of playing time in the Varsity game. It is hard to keep Juniors interested in football when they may be a solid back up to a senior on Friday night in the Varsity game and do not see much playing time unless they get to play in the J.V. games. My guess for Trinity would be that they do the same. They may have some solid Juniors who do not play much at the varsity level so they need some in game work this year to get them ready for the varsity level their senior year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSURock Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Well all I can say is look at the record. Trinity has won 16 state titles since 1968, not bad huh? They must be doing something right. One example, in 1999 Geoff Riddle was the back-up QB on the varsity that saw very little action. He started and played JV. In 2000 Geoff was confident enough through the experience that he led Trinity to the state final. An accomplishment that really would have been unlikely without that playing time down on JV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAD DOG Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 I don't speak for Trinity but I know the programs that I have been apart of with East Jessamine and Dunbar a lot of the times we let Juniors play J.V. who do not see a lot of playing time in the Varsity game. It is hard to keep Juniors interested in football when they may be a solid back up to a senior on Friday night in the Varsity game and do not see much playing time unless they get to play in the J.V. games. My guess for Trinity would be that they do the same. They may have some solid Juniors who do not play much at the varsity level so they need some in game work this year to get them ready for the varsity level their senior year. Right on the money!:thumb: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvillecat Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 The Golfer & LSU Rock both make excellent points.:thumb: There are several colleges that do the same thing. It gives them a chance to see some of the kids compete in a game type situation and some very good football players have been developed through the JV programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50inarow Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 For those of you new to BGP or not familiar with the T/X rivalry, this is one of the many explanations Xmen bring up in an effort to take away from Trinity's success. Unfortunately for us all, this is one of the areas they excelled beyond being just nearly good. ANY and EVERY year Trinity wins a big JV game, they cry "you play juniors". Yet they choose not to play juniors. I thought Glaser wanted to play all the kids. Maybe Beatty should get on the radio waves and tell "all those 8th grades that want to play football, including their junior season, should come to Trinity". Perhaps X could add “we don’t play juniors in JV games” to their long list of excuses when they lose the big games. “We just did not have enough experience”. I wasn’t too sure the win over Moeller was that big a deal until I saw this thread. If an Xmen has started pulling this stuff out, Trinity’s win must be a big deal. Congratulations ROCKS!!! Way to make nearly the entire state of Kentucky proud! :dancingpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWG88 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 With what Moeller did to the X freshmen something like 51-6 the X men are getting a little nervous. Why would a Xmen, referee and parent even want to get into this discussion about the Big "T" I guess they just they can't get over the worst lost in history to 16 time state champ Trinity 2005 .:dancingpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSURock Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 RunFirst you may have just won the weekly "Nail on Head" award. I thought it, but I just offered an explanation and let it go. You nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big K 61 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 For those of you new to BGP or not familiar with the T/X rivalry, this is one of the many explanations Xmen bring up in an effort to take away from Trinity's success. Unfortunately for us all, this is one of the areas they excelled beyond being just nearly good. ANY and EVERY year Trinity wins a big JV game, they cry "you play juniors". Yet they choose not to play juniors. I thought Glaser wanted to play all the kids. Maybe Beatty should get on the radio waves and tell "all those 8th grades that want to play football, including their junior season, should come to Trinity". Perhaps X could add “we don’t play juniors in JV games” to their long list of excuses when they lose the big games. “We just did not have enough experience”. I wasn’t too sure the win over Moeller was that big a deal until I saw this thread. If an Xmen has started pulling this stuff out, Trinity’s win must be a big deal. Congratulations ROCKS!!! Way to make nearly the entire state of Kentucky proud! :dancingpa Why does 95% of all topics on this site seem to end up talking about X and T? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covcathftball Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 I don't understand why any team wouldn't want to let juniors play JV if they're not starting Varsity. All they're doing is getting better so they can start as seniors, so what disadvantage is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Tell Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Team win against a good Moe team. B. Petrino stood out on both sides of the ball. Z Petrovic was putting the balls almost completely out of the end zone on kick offs. He also nailed a 40 yarder (there about) to go up by 3 in OT after missing a 52 yarder with 30 sec's to go in the 4th. What a leg! Netherton caused a fumble on the last play of the game to seal the deal. Bobby Petrino saw very few snaps at WR Friday night, most at DB. I would suspect that the coaches wanted to give him some game reps at WR. Zlatan dressed for the varsity game but I don't think he kicked at all. Netherton saw a few snaps on Friday but playing JV gives him more of an opportunity to get reps and learn how to get the D in the right calls. It was stated that Stein was QB in another post. ] Stein played NO QB reps friday night but he is T's back up QB so he needed some reps. Last year, Moeller played St X's JV and brought their 60 sophomores and beat St X with Ross Oltorik at QB who started the last 6 games for the varsity due to injury. But he was the Reserve QB. When he got pressed into service later into the season, he didn't play for the reserves any longer. There were 7 sophomores that had varsity gear on for Moeller and they took the bus from Louisville after the game to Findlay OHio to dress for the varsity (5 hours). But there were no juniors that played against X and I would venture that there were no juniors that played for Moeller against Trinity this week. I don't know, nor do I really care, how things are done in the GCL. If Moeller chose not to use Juniors that's their choice. If a player for Trinity starts varsity he will not play JV. Sophmore Tim Phillips doesn't. Last year Trinity brought juniors Michael Labetz and Agyei Williams with them to play the big games on their JV schedule. Can someone explain to me why a junior would be asked to come play down in a JV game? Is it because the teams practice together in Louisville and typically they are different teams ( Varsity and Reserve) in Cincy? Isn't there a stigma for an upper classman to play down a level? Is a win in a JV game much more important than a sophomore getting the neccessary repetitions against a quality opponent? Wouldn't you bring a freshmen up if you were short on players? I know a lot of the public schools with small numbers on the varsity use the same players but if you have numbers...? So kids that are juniors that don't play much varsity (like LaBedz last year) should'nt get to play in the jimmyref world? Williams had just changed position and was not starting when he played JV last year. Bottom line is that Trinity and most programs that I know of use JV games to give kids that need work reps in game situations. Anyone who doesn't start varsity WILL play JV and playing time will be given to the best players with no regard for what class they are in. You talk about stigma, I think that if you asked any of the players that you mentioned what they wanted to do they would all tell you they wanted to play. This will really get you gall up. Trinity has another JV game against Oldham County on Labor Day. Most if not all of the players that you brought up will play in that game and some of them will play again Friday night and I doubt they would have it any otehr way. If a team choose on their own to use JV games as strictly a bastion for sophomores that's their choice, it's ludicrous to expect that everyone will do the same. Typically GCL teams have 2 freshmen teams so they play a total of 14 games freshmen year. Ky schools are restricted by the maximum of 10 games total on each level so having an A and B team would mean 5 games for each team. Still, playing 10 games freshmen year and 8-10 JV year should prepare the junior for the varsity game so bringing him down for playing time seems a bit excessive. He's practicing with the varsity all week and should be ready to contribute to the varsity if needed. If some of the veterans can shed some light on this, it would be appreciated. This is not intended as an anti Kentucky posting but I wanted to point out the diffferences in philosophies. Again who cares how they do things in the GCL, this is Kentucky. Trinity has been fairly successful with the way they do things so I really don't see it changing anytime in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Bear Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 The teams I was involved with would play mostly sophmores, even some who started varsity action on Friday night. Juniors that rarely played in varsity games would play and sometimes a few freshman would play too. I think that JV games are a really good chance for players to get reps that will have a chance to contribute to the varsity level down the road. A coach would be stupid though to blow out another JV team using his star sophmore tailback and risk injury to the games that really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyref Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 Bobby Petrino saw very few snaps at WR Friday night, most at DB. I would suspect that the coaches wanted to give him some game reps at WR. Netherton saw a few snaps on Friday but playing JV gives him more of an opportunity to get reps and learn how to get the D in the right calls. Stein played NO QB reps friday night but he is T's back up QB so he needed some reps. I don't know, nor do I really care, how things are done in the GCL. If Moeller chose not to use Juniors that's their choice. If a player for Trinity starts varsity he will not play JV. So kids that are juniors that don't play much varsity (like LaBedz last year) should'nt get to play in the jimmyref world? Williams had just changed position and was not starting when he played JV last year. Bottom line is that Trinity and most programs that I know of use JV games to give kids that need work reps in game situations. Anyone who doesn't start varsity WILL play JV and playing time will be given to the best players with no regard for what class they are in. I think that if you asked any of the players that you mentioned what they wanted to do they would all tell you they wanted to play. This will really get you gall up. Trinity has another JV game against Oldham County on Labor Day. Most if not all of the players that you brought up will play in that game and some of them will play again Friday night and I doubt they would have it any otehr way. If a team choose on their own to use JV games as strictly a bastion for sophomores that's their choice, it's ludicrous to expect that everyone will do the same. Again who cares how they do things in the GCL, this is Kentucky. Trinity has been fairly successful with the way they do things so I really don't see it changing anytime in the near future. Gentlemen: Put down the venom and realize that I pointed out a different way of treating JV games by Moeller, a way to keep the student athlete focused on one schedule-mentally and physically. Step back and view it as educators and parents-not as fans for a short while. Let's take the Ky junior athlete and look at his schedule. 10 games freshmen year. Every team intends on being in the championship so 15 varsity games plus the 10 JV games are possible his sophomore year. He isn't starting his junior year so the 15 and 10 schedule is possible again. So 60 possible games plus the 7 on 7 season. How much is too much for a 14,15,16 year olds? Do we rationalize by saying we win championships so it's okay? Do coaches make that decision for the parents to play 4 times in 8 days? Do we as parents allow this because "thats how we did it." What is forgotten is Freshmen and JV played 7 games not so long ago and Varsity had fewer classes and shorter playoffs. I can see the players that did not get into the varsity game on Friday being available for the JV but someone who played both ways on Friday night playing in a JV game so he can get more reps at another postion? We have to be parents and say enough is enough. The comment was made that every kid would choose to play-yes, that's why as parents, coaches, educators that we set the policy to protect the kids from the mental burnout that can happen besides the physical pounding. Why are we surprised when a kid with talent doesn't play football in college. As to the comment as to who cares about the GCL, this is Kentucky. As Kentuckians, we care when our teams take on the national powers. I see Moeller as a national power based on National Championships they have won, and the number of players they send on to colleges. The same with De LaSalle and Hoover. The same with Assumption in volleyball. The seniors from Assumption last year took on the nation and came out number one in USA not just Kentucky. We were proud when we beat Ohio schools in years past but that was 2003. With losses to MBA by PLD and Trinity, to Elder by Cov Catholic and Highlands, Kentucky is not faring well against other states this year( Except Indiana). No one is reaching national power status in football this year. So the point of my post is to give insight as to what makes them successful, and see another philosophy. If you choose different philosophies, I respect that but while many banners are being hung, what price are the kids paying ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSURock Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Sorry JimmyRef, I'm not buying. There is nothing wrong with playing juniors on junior-varsity. No one plays starters from the varsity (no matter their class) on junior-varsity. You also are concerned about the well being of the children. I wonder if the strain of playing in a JV game so much more physical than two hours of practice? I think not. Like I posted before, RunFirst hit the nail on the head with his comments on your thread. BTW, if you are a Moeller man maybe you should move the school down here with you. They seem to have a lot of success with the Kentucky schools and lord knows they don't do much in Ohio anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Tell Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Sorry, I'm not buying either. JV is to get kids that aren't playing varsity game experience so that if they are needed they are ready. That includes kids that play one position on varsity and another on JV. You don't want to play juniors then so be it that's your prerogative but don't try to make that choice yourself and then impose your philosophy on every one else because many of us see no problem with it at all. And again I say WHO CARES WHAT THEY DO ELSEWHERE? National standings in high school sports are meaningless. The fact that Trinity was ranked as high as they were before the season proves that. Yes it's nice to beat a strong team from out of the state but in the great scheme of things other then bragging right it doesn't reall help achieve the ultimate goal, a STATE championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts