Taking out the cartels is hardly Iraq. Horrible analogy.

 

I wasn't making an analogy. I'm curious how different our country would be if we spent the money we did in Iraq on this side of the world.

The Bush-Cheney war in Iraq that destabilized the Middle East cost the U.S. close to $2 trillion. Taking out the cartels could be accomplished most efficiently by bribing the right people south of the border. Probably 1 or 2 percent of what we spent in Iraq would be sufficient.

There were 29,989 fatal motor vehicle crashes in the United States in 2014 in which 32,675 deaths occurred.

 

Just throwing that out there. If you think vehicles aren't frequently used as weapons or for suicide you're kidding yourself. While I don't like or agree with suicide, taking peoples guns away simply makes it harder for them to kill themselves, it doesn't prevent it.

 

Cars are used exponentially more than guns.

I wasn't making an analogy. I'm curious how different our country would be if we spent the money we did in Iraq on this side of the world.

 

IDK. How different would our country be if we spent the money we did on WWI or WWII or Vietnam on this side of the world?

 

You can "what if" all day.

.

 

Suicide is a tough one as is mental illness. You don't need a gun to kill yourself. Is there a way we can spot mental illness before one kills themselves or others? I truly don't know the answer to that. Is every mental illness treatable? I don't think all are

 

"Although most gun owners reportedly keep a firearm in their home for 'protection' or 'self-defense,' 83 percent of gun-related deaths in these homes are the result of a suicide, often by someone other than the gun owner," says the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. The New England Journal of Medicine and the Annals of Emergency Medicine have documented that suicide, not cancer or a heart attack, is the leading cause of death among people who bought a gun within the past year. The risk of dying from a gun is 17 times greater if one lives in a gun-owning household.

 

Some might dismiss this argument out of the belief that adults have the right to take their own lives. But there is also a risk to children. The firearm-suicide rate for U.S. children is 10 times higher than the firearm-suicide rate of the children of all other nations in the world combined, according to the National Institutes of Health.

 

With the loss of around 20,000 Americans a year suicide by gun needs something more than "they do that anyway" or "it's their life." As the article quoted above the gun used most of the time is not the gun owner.

 

I read a story (I can't find it) where a gun club in Maine confisicates members guns when they are going through a difficult personal experience. The procedure is part of their membership rules and is a measure to stop suicide and violence.

 

To me actions like that are proactive on all sides of the gun community.

"Although most gun owners reportedly keep a firearm in their home for 'protection' or 'self-defense' date='' 83 percent of gun-related deaths in these homes are the result of a suicide, often by someone other than the gun owner," says the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. The New England Journal of Medicine and the Annals of Emergency Medicine have documented that suicide, not cancer or a heart attack, is the leading cause of death among people who bought a gun within the past year. The risk of dying from a gun is 17 times greater if one lives in a gun-owning household. Some might dismiss this argument out of the belief that adults have the right to take their own lives. But there is also a risk to children. The firearm-suicide rate for U.S. children is 10 times higher than the firearm-suicide rate of the children of all other nations in the world combined, according to the National Institutes of Health. With the loss of around 20,000 Americans a year suicide by gun needs something more than "they do that anyway" or "it's their life." As the article quoted above the gun used most of the time is not the gun owner. I read a story (I can't find it) where a gun club in Maine confisicates members guns when they are going through a difficult personal experience. The procedure is part of their membership rules and is a measure to stop suicide and violence. To me actions like that are proactive on all sides of the gun community.[/quote']

 

Is suicide really going to be your stance? If you take away guns, you don't think people will find other ways to end their lives if that's the unfortunate thing they want to do?

No one has said take away guns.

If we are going to be a nation of arms we have to answer for the problems they create. Suicide is one.

 

I like the suggestion by RTS in post #3 - increase the penalty significantly on any crime where a firearm is used. Make these penalties so severe it will tell people that if they use a firearm in a crime, they know they will be going to jail for a long, long time.

 

A second suggestion - put in place penalties on the use of a firearm you own by anyone in a crime. Put the burden on a gun owner to be responsible for their weapons. I am strongly in favor of gun ownership, but I also am in favor of strong laws that make sure gun owners are fully responsible for their weapons. If a weapon you own is used in a killing of any kind (accident, suicide, or criminal), you immediately lose your right to own a gun and must go through some process to prove you should be allowed to continue to own a gun.

 

If you are caught with a gun and cannot prove it is your weapon legally purchased, you lose the weapon and are subject to severe penalties including possible jail time. This person also loses the right to own a weapon until they can prove through some process they should be allowed to own a weapon. Make this process thorough and extensive. It should not be easy. You will have a heavy burden to overcome to prove you can be a responsible gun owner.

 

As stated above, I am 100% in favor of gun ownership and will fight adamantly with the staunchest NRA supporter out there against any law that keeps the right of gun ownership away from a responsible citizen.

 

I also am just as staunchly in favor of laws that control and restrict gun ownership. My goal is that every law abiding, responsible citizen can own a gun. If they prove to be unable to own their weapons responsibly, they lose them.

Cars are used exponentially more than guns.

 

I would beg to differ, guns are used as a deterrent all day every day. A guns trigger doesn't have to be pulled for it to serve a functional purpose.

"Although most gun owners reportedly keep a firearm in their home for 'protection' or 'self-defense,' 83 percent of gun-related deaths in these homes are the result of a suicide, often by someone other than the gun owner," says the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. The New England Journal of Medicine and the Annals of Emergency Medicine have documented that suicide, not cancer or a heart attack, is the leading cause of death among people who bought a gun within the past year. The risk of dying from a gun is 17 times greater if one lives in a gun-owning household.

 

Some might dismiss this argument out of the belief that adults have the right to take their own lives. But there is also a risk to children. The firearm-suicide rate for U.S. children is 10 times higher than the firearm-suicide rate of the children of all other nations in the world combined, according to the National Institutes of Health.

 

With the loss of around 20,000 Americans a year suicide by gun needs something more than "they do that anyway" or "it's their life." As the article quoted above the gun used most of the time is not the gun owner.

 

I read a story (I can't find it) where a gun club in Maine confisicates members guns when they are going through a difficult personal experience. The procedure is part of their membership rules and is a measure to stop suicide and violence.

 

To me actions like that are proactive on all sides of the gun community.

 

You don't have to point out to me that firearms are at the top of the list for suicide, it happened in our family. I can tell you, if he didn't have a shotgun, he would have found another way. If you have solutions for stopping suicides, I'm listening.

I would beg to differ, guns are used as a deterrent all day every day. A guns trigger doesn't have to be pulled for it to serve a functional purpose.

 

200+ million adults average an hour or so a day driving their cars.

 

Around 11 million Concealed Carry permits saying these people carry or use their weapon.

 

Just using an educated estimation the daily use of cars is much greater.

You don't have to point out to me that firearms are at the top of the list for suicide, it happened in our family. I can tell you, if he didn't have a shotgun, he would have found another way. If you have solutions for stopping suicides, I'm listening.

 

RTS, I was afraid you would think I was pointing to you. I just used that section of your list. I apologize for the confusion.

 

Some will find another way. Others may have that brief season in their life where a gun just makes it easier.

 

I provided an example where people are doing the right things to help. That's proactive and very different from some of the language out there.

RTS, I was afraid you would think I was pointing to you. I just used that section of your list. I apologize for the confusion.

 

Some will find another way. Others may have that brief season in their life where a gun just makes it easier.

 

I provided an example where people are doing the right things to help. That's proactive and very different from some of the language out there.

 

Let me assure you, I wasn't offended, I like the thread and the debate.

 

It's an interesting example. I think the problem would be if the government tried to implement a law similar, it would be viewed as an infringement on their 2nd amendment right. I'm not saying I disagree or agree with the premise. I'd have to see how it would be put into practice and carried out.

Let me assure you, I wasn't offended, I like the thread and the debate.

 

It's an interesting example. I think the problem would be if the government tried to implement a law similar, it would be viewed as an infringement on their 2nd amendment right. I'm not saying I disagree or agree with the premise. I'd have to see how it would be put into practice and carried out.

 

Kind of along the same lines. What do you think of @Voice of Reason 's idea about holding gun owners accountable for all shootings that involved their weapon?

 

Considering the amount of suicides that are committed with someone else's weapon that could possibly raise accountability and lower the death toll.

 

One of the pitfalls would restrict access in an emergency.

Kind of along the same lines. What do you think of @Voice of Reason 's idea about holding gun owners accountable for all shootings that involved their weapon?

 

Considering the amount of suicides that are committed with someone else's weapon that could possibly raise accountability and lower the death toll.

 

One of the pitfalls would restrict access in an emergency.

 

Could be a slippery slope. I agree with the restricted access during an emergency. If your gun is stolen and used in a crime, should you be punished? If your spouse found out they had a horrible, debilitating, terminal disease and decided to end their life with your gun (even if you had it locked away and they found the key or combination), should you be punished? Just a few of the questions I'd have.