June 16, 201610 yr If you are being investigated by the FBI, should you be allowed to buy guns? Hillary says no. Slightly hypocritical if you ask me.
June 16, 201610 yr If there are no criminal charges, how will they fight it in court, exactly? I know someone who was on the no fly list. He has never been arrested. Never been suspected of anything close to terrorism. He had a name similar to someone who apparently was suspected of terrorism and was placed on a no fly list. Should he have to spend his own time and money to defend himself, when there's literally no evidence he did anything wrong, just so he can exercise his constitutional right? Should we ban free speech for those on the watch list also? What about the right to vote? Don't know. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what changes they make to the No Fly list. Oh wait......
June 16, 201610 yr If you are being investigated by the FBI, should you be allowed to buy guns? Right now the obvious answer is yes to both questions.
June 16, 201610 yr If you are being investigated by the FBI' date=' should you be allowed to buy guns?[/quote'] FBI investigated him 3 times then signed off on his sale.
June 16, 201610 yr Yeah let's just do nothing. Seems to be working well. I would rather do nothing and not infringe rights than do something that infringes thousands of people's rights and it is not even know if this will make us any safer since the black market is pretty vast.
June 16, 201610 yr I don't always agree with this guy but can't argue with this view: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjR2u3Tnq3NAhVNQVIKHWTiAEIQtwIIHjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DX4NHXN751Io&usg=AFQjCNEAX5KS1xnMTyMwgeNUtJj156Ua4Q&sig2=fCaMZ4CTTRvQXQoj_Nz7bQ
June 16, 201610 yr https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjR2u3Tnq3NAhVNQVIKHWTiAEIQtwIIHjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DX4NHXN751Io&usg=AFQjCNEAX5KS1xnMTyMwgeNUtJj156Ua4Q&sig2=fCaMZ4CTTRvQXQoj_Nz7bQ Don't always agree with him but I think he got this one.
June 16, 201610 yr Sorry. Not convinced. I'm still for the "no-fly, no-buy." If someone wants to appeal their case and prove they are wrongly on the list, then let them fly and buy. A bunch of those 800,000 have been deemed dangerous for pretty good reasons. I don't want them buying assault weapons. Common sense. A bunch of those 800,000 have been deemed dangerous for good reasons? How many is that? Let's say one tenth on the list are dangerous. Then that means 720,000 Americans are having their constitutional rights violated for no good reason. That is unacceptable to me. The government should charge them and give these people due process. That way they can face their accusers and hear the charges and see the evidence so they can defend themselves. WHatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? So what is your plan then to stop radical Islamists born on American soil who perpetrate attacks of domestic terrorism with guns they shouldn't be allowed to purchase since they can't fly from Orlando to Vegas? I'm all ears. Fair question. I am not sure how you stop a lone wolf radicalized terrorist. It would be helpful to know why the guy in Orlando, though investigated by the FBI, slipped through the cracks. I would say that is where to start looking for an answer. Why weren't they able to find enough evidence to take action against him before he could attack. I am not privy to that information. I know I don't want to react to this and say well, I will give up part of my constitutional rights to hopefully prevent this in the future. That is an even greater danger, long-term, to Americans than what we have now. Since radical Islam is a common denominator LE should build bridges to the Muslim community and work more closely with them and educate them about the importance of reporting those among them who appear to be on a path to radicalization. Ask community leaders to give messages encouraging cooperation in the fight against terror. Ask clerics to do the same. How do you prevent a crazy, with conflicted sexuality, and a twisted need to justify himself before his father and his religious beliefs...? That is a hard one to call. Hold accountable those who knew. The wife very well may be complicit. If there are no criminal charges, how will they fight it in court, exactly? I know someone who was on the no fly list. He has never been arrested. Never been suspected of anything close to terrorism. He had a name similar to someone who apparently was suspected of terrorism and was placed on a no fly list. Should he have to spend his own time and money to defend himself, when there's literally no evidence he did anything wrong, just so he can exercise his constitutional right? Should we ban free speech for those on the watch list also? What about the right to vote? How did your friend find out that he was on the list? How soon after he was placed on the list did he find out? What did he have to do to get off the list? At what cost?
June 16, 201610 yr Don't know. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what changes they make to the No Fly list. Oh wait...... They'd have to create some form of legal process where someone could challenge the no fly list too. Unless there's some kind of court procedure where they could do that already.
June 16, 201610 yr A bunch of those 800,000 have been deemed dangerous for good reasons? How many is that? Let's say one tenth on the list are dangerous. Then that means 720,000 Americans are having their constitutional rights violated for no good reason. That is unacceptable to me. The government should charge them and give these people due process. That way they can face their accusers and hear the charges and see the evidence so they can defend themselves. WHatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Fair question. I am not sure how you stop a lone wolf radicalized terrorist. It would be helpful to know why the guy in Orlando, though investigated by the FBI, slipped through the cracks. I would say that is where to start looking for an answer. Why weren't they able to find enough evidence to take action against him before he could attack. I am not privy to that information. I know I don't want to react to this and say well, I will give up part of my constitutional rights to hopefully prevent this in the future. That is an even greater danger, long-term, to Americans than what we have now. Since radical Islam is a common denominator LE should build bridges to the Muslim community and work more closely with them and educate them about the importance of reporting those among them who appear to be on a path to radicalization. Ask community leaders to give messages encouraging cooperation in the fight against terror. Ask clerics to do the same. How do you prevent a crazy, with conflicted sexuality, and a twisted need to justify himself before his father and his religious beliefs...? That is a hard one to call. Hold accountable those who knew. The wife very well may be complicit. How did your friend find out that he was on the list? How soon after he was placed on the list did he find out? What did he have to do to get off the list? At what cost? I'm not entirely sure on details. He tried to fly and wasn't allowed for some time, not sure how long or if it was even a full day, but the point remains. If he was on some list, how many others that have done nothing won't are also on it?
June 16, 201610 yr I agree. I was curious if a person is even told or if they only find out when they try to buy an airline ticket. This is one rub I have about a no fly-no buy list. First, if you are going to take away a person's constitutional right then that person should be informed as soon as his/her name goes on the list. Second, the person needs to be informed of the reason his/her name appears on the list, and the evidence that got it placed there. Third, if the person then mounts a defense and gets his/her name removed from the list, the government should pay the full bill for doing so--legal fees, lost work, court costs, etc. The false accuser should be made to bear the costs not the one falsely accused. Rather than all of that, let's resist taking away constitutional rights on mere suspicion and require the government to show compelling proof for such action.
June 16, 201610 yr Interesting use of this 'tool'. U.S. Citizen Put on No-Fly List to Pressure Him Into Becoming FBI Informant
June 16, 201610 yr DHS did not like his last time it came up. Also this link does indicate how many citizens are on list (relatively). The supposed answer is less than 0.1%. DHS official throws cold water on using no-fly list for gun control “I believe it would be apples and oranges” to use the watch list for anything other than its designed purpose, Assistant Secretary for International Affairs Alan Bersin told House lawmakers in an Oversight Committee hearing on Thursday. … ... “Less than 0.1 percent” of the tens of thousands of people on the federal no-fly list are Americans, Bersin told lawmakers.
June 16, 201610 yr Essentially what this topic is saying is you want to throw out due process and innocent until proven guilty for an American citizen. I hear the word insane thrown around a lot but my lord. We have to quit letting fear dictate our policy. Gun crime is down significantly since the 90s. You would think it is on the rise from some reactions. Handguns kill way more people than rifles in this country. Why does no one attack them ? As stated in the thread but some guns look scarier.
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