June 22, 201610 yr Since the vast majority of the list is non-US citizens the requirement for due process for them does not apply. The have no constitutional protections in our country. And if they are legitimately on the list for even suspected issues they should be deported or not have their visas renewed or even have their visa terminated. I can agree if someone is a non citizen and is on the list they cannot buy a gun. But isn't that already the case ?
June 22, 201610 yr How about instead of keeping them off planes we detain and interrogate them? They're allowed to walk our streets but they can't get on a plane? We should all feel safe.
June 24, 201610 yr The title of this thread should be "No Fly - no Buy...legally". Just because someone is put on a list that they cannot buy a gun, do we really think someone committed to kill in the name of ISIS or some other terrorist organization is not going to find a way to get a gun to do so...or find another way (bomb)? Really?? I guess it does make a lot of people feel better that they have done "something" when a massacre like what happened in Orlando occurred. However, I honestly don't think it will stop any terrorist activity. Not surprisingly, I pretty much think LB is spot on in this thread. Giving up constitutional rights without due process is a REAL dangerous thing to start doing...slippery slope for sure.
June 24, 201610 yr How well should we trust this list? This really brings home the risk of the ABUSE of POWER that such a list enables.
June 24, 201610 yr Charts for some of the offshoot discussions Country Comparison Compared to 'developed' countries the US looks bad. Compared to other western hemisphere countries - not so much. I continue to believe that this due to the 2 (more mor) Americas. Almost no better chart shows this than Chicago - the chart below. If you live in dark blue - its like living in a 'developed country'. If you live in the deep red - its more like our 'undeveloped' neighbors to the south. Another view of the 2 Americas. This seems to be most characterized by Detroit and Baltimore. Speaking of our neighbor - Mexico. Here are some statistics on 'drug related homicides' (most likely committed with firearms). Are more people acquiring (legal) firearms? The follow chart seems to indicate the answer is yes. Note - the chart above is not normalized for population (usually expressed as per capita). Is this increasing accidents? The following chart seems to indicate that the answer is no. In fact the accident rate (normalized) is at an all time low. What is happening with gun rate statistics? Non-fatal gun crimes have gone down substantially since the early 90s. Though the rate seems to have level off. Overall homicide rate The last chart is a bit less objective but shows some historical events vs the homocide rate. Do we have problems? Yes. Do we have statically increasing problems? That is hard to see. Have things gotten much better better statically over the last couple of decades? Absolutely. Is increasing general, legal gun ownership a driver of problems? Does not appear so - statistically. Much of the statistics are driven by the 2nd America, IMHO. If one looks at the Chicago stats it shows around 85% of the victims to be black, about 10% to be hispanic and about 5% to be white. I hate using race as the separator but its the stat most used that I can remember. But the real driver is the institutional poverty that leads to violence and illegal activity related gun violence. Probably 90% of my neighbors have firearms in their house. Does this make me and the wife unsafe as we walk each night? Not that I know of. But that is how it is in the 'first America.' Passing new 'gun laws' would not likely make us any safer in our normal 'America'. I respect all here. There are problems in America and we all know it. But lets not let the average and non-relevant comparative statistics drive us into endless he-said, she-said debate.
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