For each of you and anyone else, when/what/who should a business be able to say no to?

 

Lesibians? Muslims? Gay Men? Illegal Aliens? Hispanics? Anyone of Middle Eastern Descent? Whites? Blacks? Politicians? Police Officers?

 

To answer that question again: ANYONE THEY WANT

As a business move, denying to provide service to someone because you don't believe in their way of life is costing you money and can make you look bad to other clients and future sales. But that's on you. Nobody should be able to tell you that you have to provide services for anyone that asks! I'm not siding with all business owners for their decisions. Just saying we don't need government telling us what we can and can't do

 

Isn't this the government telling us we either can or can't discriminate based on our personal beliefs? In other words, anyway you cut it the government is telling us what to do.

Isn't this the government telling us we either can or can't discriminate based on our personal beliefs? In other words, anyway you cut it the government is telling us what to do.

 

This is true.

This is true.

 

I am glad we are on the same page.

 

This is where the debate begins. As I see it, the debate is: Personal Beliefs vs. Equality for All

To answer that question again: ANYONE THEY WANT

 

Society cannot function with this as the rule

Society cannot function with this as the rule

 

So you come into my place of business and I refuse to provide a service for you. first , I don't need to tell you why. Second, why can't you just go down the road to the next place that will provide the service for you? Why would society not function like this? Bad business move on my part maybe, but instead of crying that I won't serve you, just go to someone who will.

If you own a business, IMO you have the right to choose whether or not you will provide service for a potential client or not. It's your business and thus you should be able to decide what to do with it. Should Chick-Fil-A be forced to be open on Sunday's? Should privately owned Catholic hospitals be forced to offer birth control? IMO, no.

 

Edit: However, now that I think about it, if the hospital is receiving any federal funding for research, etc then I believe they should be forced to do so.

To answer that question again: ANYONE THEY WANT

 

This is not right or should not be the case in the vast majority of cases of business transactions. i.e. standard product for standard price.

 

If you sell a standard product and Joe or Jane Q public can walk in your door and order or buy the prouduct or service - without customization or modification - you should not be able turn them down.

 

The problem with this is debate is that highlighed issues are around 'custom products' or 'custom services' where the buyer can dictate content or a service provide must participate in some manner at the customer venue and be part of what ever event the customer is having.

 

Should a t-shirt shop be able to prevent someone from buying a t-shirt they have hanging on their rack - no. Should a t-shirt shop be compelled to print an image that they do not already offer? No. The grounds for the refusal should not matter. Religious, taste, obscene, just do not like it, etc. But if the t-shirt shop offers pre-designed images for ordering - then they should fulfill request for those for all.

 

For the on-site service providers - like photographers and caterers - they need to be able to decline business for any reason as well. Whether is gay wedding or a hedonistic orgy or something else the business needs to be able to avoid injecting itself to an event that it does not agree with and can not control.

 

Another legal problem here is that if people do not have the right to refuse an engagement then the lawsuits could be for anything at anytime. What if a gay couple ask a photographer or caterer to do an event - and they are refused. No due to any religious or other reason - but the simple reason the photographer or caterer is already booked that day, or they will be on vacation, or is not working that weekend since cousin Joe is in town. Of course there will usually be an automatic distrust and the possibley of lawsuit that ruins the business is alwasy a risk.

 

Compelling a custom product or custom service offering to do something for any reason and not giving the option to refuse the content or venue or event time - for any reason is very, very problemetic for those businesses.

This is not right or should not be the case in the vast majority of cases of business transactions. i.e. standard product for standard price.

 

If you sell a standard product and Joe or Jane Q public can walk in your door and order or buy the prouduct or service - without customization or modification - you should not be able turn them down.

 

The problem with this is debate is that highlighed issues are around 'custom products' or 'custom services' where the buyer can dictate content or a service provide must participate in some manner at the customer venue and be part of what ever event the customer is having.

 

Should a t-shirt shop be able to prevent someone from buying a t-shirt they have hanging on their rack - no. Should a t-shirt shop be compelled to print an image that they do not already offer? No. The grounds for the refusal should not matter. Religious, taste, obscene, just do not like it, etc. But if the t-shirt shop offers pre-designed images for ordering - then they should fulfill request for those for all.

 

For the on-site service providers - like photographers and caterers - they need to be able to decline business for any reason as well. Whether is gay wedding or a hedonistic orgy or something else the business needs to be able to avoid injecting itself to an event that it does not agree with and can not control.

 

Another legal problem here is that if people do not have the right to refuse an engagement then the lawsuits could be for anything at anytime. What if a gay couple ask a photographer or caterer to do an event - and they are refused. No due to any religious or other reason - but the simple reason the photographer or caterer is already booked that day, or they will be on vacation, or is not working that weekend since cousin Joe is in town. Of course there will usually be an automatic distrust and the possibley of lawsuit that ruins the business is alwasy a risk.

 

Compelling a custom product or custom service offering to do something for any reason and not giving the option to refuse the content or venue or event time - for any reason is very, very problemetic for those businesses.

 

That's a totally different scenario from turning down a wedding for religious reasons. If they are already booked that should be easy enough to prove. In most, if not all, of the cases that have made the news people were told that they were being turned down for religious reasons.

That's a totally different scenario from turning down a wedding for religious reasons. If they are already booked that should be easy enough to prove. In most, if not all, of the cases that have made the news people were told that they were being turned down for religious reasons.

 

Should a Muslim caterer be made to serve at a same sex wedding they are refusing on religious grounds?

The problem is the market does not solve social problems.

 

The Jim Crow South was marked by the refusal of businesses to serve black customers. It was in many instances impossible for a black person to drive across the South without needing to sleep in their cars because hotels wouldn't take them, or bring extra gas tanks because service stations wouldn't serve them, etc. These businesses weren't being punished by the market, but rewarded, and there were precious few enterprising individuals springing up to serve this customer base.

 

The current debate isn't as dramatic as Jim Crow but the notion that discriminatory businesses will lose customers to more equitable businesses hasn't proved true throughout history.

That's a totally different scenario from turning down a wedding for religious reasons. If they are already booked that should be easy enough to prove. In most, if not all, of the cases that have made the news people were told that they were being turned down for religious reasons.

 

You should not have to prove anything. Thre reason for the refusal should not have have to be demonstrated.

 

This situation is like the Apple phone unlock debate in some ways. A private entity is being compelled to take action by the government. That is the very essence of non-freedom.

Should a Muslim caterer be made to serve at a same sex wedding they are refusing on religious grounds?

 

I never made a comment on the law either way. The original poster implied that they could get in trouble if they turned down the job because they were booked. That didn't make sense.