An interesting thing I noticed when skimming those articles — I think it was a story on the Fairness And Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR) site — is that a high number of avowed liberals complain NPR leans right, while a similar number of avowed conservatives complain it leans left. That tells me quite a lot that NPR is about as neutral as you're gonna get in this country.

I personally think Fox News leans too far left.

 

I'm afraid to ask Atticus what Oscar smells like... :eek:

Global warming involves a number of issues.

 

First, is the earth warming - regardless of cause? I think that the evidence says yes.

 

Second, Do greenhouse gases contribute to making the earth warmer? Again, the answer is yes.

 

Third, Is the production of greenhouse gases from human activity a significant contributor to the total load of greenhouse gases? That one is a lot tougher to answer. Clearly, "natural" sources of greenhouse gases exceed the production from human activities, but, the release of carbon dioxide from fossil fuels upsets the balance. As an example, put 100 pennies into each side of a balance beam every minute and the beam will stay in balance. Add one extra penny to only one side and the balance is upset. The extra penny is only one percent of the amount added, but it is enough to upset the balance. Concentrations of greenhouse gases have increased and are continuing to increase.

 

Finally, Are the projections of the effects of the increases in greenhouse gas concentrations reliable? That is the toughest question of all. Scientists are using very sophisticated models to project what could happen. The problem of course is that no model is as sophisticated or comples as nature. That leasves a large margin for error. What will happen could be much less severe than what has been projected, or, it could be a lot worse.

 

My own experience tells me that we tend to underestimate the ability of the earth to heal itself. Thirty-five years ago Lake Erie was thought to be beyond recovery. Today it is well on its way back. The key was stopping the pollution from entering the lake so that it could recover. I read an article a couple of weeks ago about fish coming back to a fomerly dead lake in the northeast. The lake is benefitting from the very significant reductions in sulfer dioxide from power plants.

 

My own experience also tells me that we tend to overestimate the economic dosruption of pollution control activities. In the early 70's, American Electric Power was running ads that said that control of sulfer dioxide from power plants would mean enormous increases in power costs and huge quantities of toxic sludge from the control activities. We made the decision to control sulfer dioxide and none of those awful things happened. The always resourceful American scientists and engineers found ways to meet the new regulations without the economic disruption that had been predicted.

 

What does it all mean? I don't have the answer. What happens if Al Gore is right and we ignore him? What happens if Al Gore is wrong and we listen to him? Think about the risks of each path and to me it seems very clear that we need to begin now to control production of greenhouse gases.

As a dreaded conservative capitalist, I wish things would go ahead and warm up. I invested in some acreage in North Dakota with the intent of putting in an orange grove. I figure Florida and California will be unbearably hot, and ND will be just right. :thumb:

As a dreaded conservative capitalist, I wish things would go ahead and warm up. I invested in some acreage in North Dakota with the intent of putting in an orange grove. I figure Florida and California will be unbearably hot, and ND will be just right. :thumb:

 

:thumb:

 

You may also want to consider purchasing some real estate in Nevada that will someday be oceanfront after earthquakes (caused by George Bush) knock CA into the water.

:thumb:

 

You may also want to consider purchasing some real estate in Nevada that will someday be oceanfront after earthquakes (caused by George Bush) knock CA into the water.

Oooohhhh! Great idea... :thumb:

 

 

That would also make my neighborhood in E. Ky an exclusive private island, when the Ohio River rises...

 

 

...I might just go out and rev my car engine a few times to bring it on sooner... :thumb:

......I might just go out and rev my car engine a few times to bring it on sooner... :thumb:

 

Who are you kidding? We know that "yard car" you have up on blocks in front of your double wide doesn't have an engine in it ....

 

 

 

Frances

 

PS - Don't try to "high hat" me - I come from the same holler....

PSS - and I don't think any of our old neighbors are doing too much bragging about knowing either one of us...

...What happens if Al Gore is right and we ignore him? What happens if Al Gore is wrong and we listen to him?

 

This is the entire problem, in a nutshell.

 

To dismiss Gore's (and a slew of others) contention out of hand (with no critical examination) is folly.

 

To take it as Gospel without critical examination is just as bad.

 

 

Frances

This is the entire problem, in a nutshell.

 

To dismiss Gore's (and a slew of others) contention out of hand (with no critical examination) is folly.

 

To take it as Gospel without critical examination is just as bad.

 

 

Frances

Careful you don't damage the goods straddling the fence there Bea... :lol:

Who are you kidding? We know that "yard car" you have up on blocks in front of your double wide doesn't have an engine in it ....

Yeah, but I do have a pair of flatulent squirrels under the hood that can really tear it up... and everybody knows how bad methane is for the ozone. :lol:

Careful you don't damage the goods straddling the fence there Bea... :lol:

 

I know which side of the fence I come down on - and it didn't take a self imposed castration to get me there.

 

 

Frances

This ran on MSNBC site this morning. I wouldn't discount old Al just yet.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13474997/

 

Earth is the warmest in 400 plus years with a dramatic uptick the past 140 years.

I know which side of the fence I come down on - and it didn't take a self imposed castration to get me there.

Oooohhh... somebody had to hold you down then huh? :creepy:

This ran on MSNBC site this morning. I wouldn't discount old Al just yet.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13474997/

 

Earth is the warmest in 400 plus years with a dramatic uptick the past 140 years.

Their findings are in line with most of what I have read. That won't stop some from saying they don't believe it. I think that the scientific debate about whether warming has occurred should be over. It is the projections of what will happen that are much more open to debate. None of us can "know" what will happen, especally in a system as complex as global climate. I think that is why it is prudent to take steps to minimize change.

This ran on MSNBC site this morning. I wouldn't discount old Al just yet.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13474997/

 

Earth is the warmest in 400 plus years with a dramatic uptick the past 140 years.

 

When I read this article earlier today, it did not make me start thinking, "My gosh, Al Gore was right all along" but it does affirm my belief that we need to be cognizant of things like this and starting thinking of moderate (versus extreme) ways to address them.

 

I think we need to keep in mind the part about the dramatic uptick in the past 140 years due to the fact that the industrial revolution really go going about 140 years ago.

Their findings are in line with most of what I have read. That won't stop some from saying they don't believe it. I think that the scientific debate about whether warming has occurred should be over. It is the projections of what will happen that are much more open to debate. None of us can "know" what will happen, especally in a system as complex as global climate. I think that is why it is prudent to take steps to minimize change.

 

It is easy to say that the Earth is warming. It is not easy for any scientist to say what is causing it. The easy answer is greenhouse gasses from burning carbon based fuels. If that were the case, wouldn't you think the 400x more greenhouse gasses put into the atomosphere from volcanos over the last 10s of thousands of years would have made things much hotter? The real answer is that it is cyclical. The Earth goes through warming and cooling cycles caused by many, many variables. I am sure the human element is a very small part of one of those variables, but if you take humans out of the equation, the Earth would still be warming and cooling over time just like it has for millions of years. While I am not saying that the human element should be ignored, this issue is way to politicized to create an alarmist situation to score political points. The Earth has been around for millions of years and it will be around for millions more after we are gone. The real hot air is all the talk in Washington. Shut them up and we might drop the average temp by a couple of degrees.