In a game I attended, they didn't count the run...

 

As the initial play was described, the run counts. No force out involved so its a timing play. Which happened first - run or 3rd out?

I may be wrong, but I thought that an improper tag counted the same as a force play. If you are correct, I apologize for being wrong. However, I would like to read this interpretation in a rule book somewhere. Do you have a rule reference? If so, please share. And if you think questioning a rule is acting a fool , then you should not be umpiring. It is the coaches responsibility at any level to question and confirm the umpires ruling. I have coached for many years and would love to have you umpiring one of my games just so I could pull the book out on you. I always hated the so-called "know it all" umpires who thought they were always right. There was nothing better than having them have to correct their decision.

 

HT - to be honest, if I'm umping your game and you challenge me on a simple rule like this, I feel pretty good about who knows the rulebook and who doesn't.

 

Enough with the bravado.

I wasn't sure what the rule was, and never questioned the call, except to simply ask what the rule was. I asked courteously, between innings, and was answered courteously. Even though I admit I was not convinced, it was not mentioned again during the game. I don't believe I did anything wrong by asking about the rule. It is now obvious that I was wrong about thinking run should not have counted, but how else would I have been informed correctly if I hadn't asked?

I wasn't sure what the rule was, and never questioned the call, except to simply ask what the rule was. I asked courteously, between innings, and was answered courteously. Even though I admit I was not convinced, it was not mentioned again during the game. I don't believe I did anything wrong by asking about the rule. It is now obvious that I was wrong about thinking run should not have counted, but how else would I have been informed correctly if I hadn't asked?

 

Badcat, I don't think anyone is knocking you for asking, especially if you do it in a respectful manner. I think Hilltopper got some people's ire up when he talked about it being your responsibility to question the umpires rulings. He made it sound like he does it frequently, whether he knows the rules or not. Most umpires will happily explain a rule in between innings. Especially when they know what they are talking about.

Badcat, I don't think anyone is knocking you for asking, especially if you do it in a respectful manner. I think Hilltopper got some people's ire up when he talked about it being your responsibility to question the umpires rulings. He made it sound like he does it frequently, whether he knows the rules or not. Most umpires will happily explain a rule in between innings. Especially when they know what they are talking about.

 

I never questioned an umpire unless I knew I was right or in this case I didn't understand the rule. This is not a simple rule and as the coach you have a right to an explaination. I always treated "Blue" with respect.

Don't feel bad...I too have coached for over 20 years and I once actually had Blue convienced that the runner I sent from third (too early) and had slid accross the plate a split second after the ball was bunted was a STRAIGHT STEEL and the run should count even though the batter was thrown out at first for the third out. After about 20 minutes of argument and rule book viewing from the opposing coach...blue reversed his call...hahahah

So in other words you as the coach knew what the correct call should have been and you convinced the umpire that the wrong call should be made.

That's a great example to set.

Imo the run does not count bc it wasn't a force out.

 

This confuses me. I thought if it WASN'T a force, then it's a time play, whichever happens first counts. If the runner trying to advance was tagged or called out after the other runner crossed the plate, the run scored?

This confuses me. I thought if it WASN'T a force, then it's a time play, whichever happens first counts. If the runner trying to advance was tagged or called out after the other runner crossed the plate, the run scored?

You are right, I believe now - I went back and reviewed my post that you quoted and I had it all mixed up.:confused: :lol: Who am I, why am I here, where are we:confused: :confused: :lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry for the confusion.I think:laugh: :laugh:

So in other words you as the coach knew what the correct call should have been and you convinced the umpire that the wrong call should be made.

That's a great example to set.

 

Yep...wasn't there to win friends or influence people...was there to win a tourney....second sucks.

Yep...wasn't there to win friends or influence people...was there to win a tourney....second sucks.

Once again great example to set for your charges.

 

I really hope you are proud of that accomplishment. I would call it cheating.

 

And people wonder why so few want to officiate games. It's one thing when a coach argues about something that he is wrong about, it's another thing entirely when a coach purposely tries to convince an official to apply a rule incorrectly.

Once again great example to set for your charges.

 

I really hope you are proud of that accomplishment. I would call it cheating.

 

And people wonder why so few want to officiate games. It's one thing when a coach argues about something that he is wrong about, it's another thing entirely when a coach purposely tries to convince an official to apply a rule incorrectly.

 

Like you never pointed and yelled fair ball on a ball you knew was foul....get off your high horse....if you think a coach is not going to get a favorable call whenever he can....please don't try to call a game.

Yes I have BUT I didn't expect the umpire to change his call. Arguing when you think an umpire has made a mistake and arguing when you know that you are wrong about a rules interpretation are two totally different things.

 

One is part of the game the other is trying to cheat just the same as if you knowingly played an ineligible player or tried to change your batting order. At the very worst it is a poor example of sportsmanship. In fact had I been umpiring the game in question I would have probably invited you to leave the playing field.

 

If I may ask, what level of competition did this coaching stroke of genius take place and how old was the umpire that you got to make this call?

Yes I have BUT I didn't expect the umpire to change his call. Arguing when you think an umpire has made a mistake and arguing when you know that you are wrong about a rules interpretation are two totally different things.

 

One is part of the game the other is trying to cheat just the same as if you knowingly played an ineligible player or tried to change your batting order. At the very worst it is a poor example of sportsmanship. In fact had I been umpiring the game in question I would have probably invited you to leave the playing field.

 

If I may ask, what level of competition did this coaching stroke of genius take place and how old was the umpire that you got to make this call?

 

18U AABC - and I didn't check his ID

Yes I have BUT I didn't expect the umpire to change his call. Arguing when you think an umpire has made a mistake and arguing when you know that you are wrong about a rules interpretation are two totally different things.

 

One is part of the game the other is trying to cheat just the same as if you knowingly played an ineligible player or tried to change your batting order. At the very worst it is a poor example of sportsmanship. In fact had I been umpiring the game in question I would have probably invited you to leave the playing field.

 

If I may ask, what level of competition did this coaching stroke of genius take place and how old was the umpire that you got to make this call?

 

AND....now that you have admitted to cheating...trying to influence the umpire to call a foul ball your way, I assume your lecture is over.

Adult?