July 30, 201511 yr Are you being serious? Is this a universal opinion, or does it just apply to abortion? Lots of people are against tattoos, does that mean they should be illegal? Same with drinking, or smoking, or hunting. You REALLY just compared abortion to getting a tattoo? You might want to rethink that.
July 30, 201511 yr Explain why it can't be prosecuted. Doctors could lose their license to practice medicine for their lifetime and be put in prison for a period of time. I think this was done pre Roe v Wade Because if you make it illegal women won't stop having abortions, they'll just stop doing it safely with medical professionals. Now tell me how you're going to prosecute the 18 year old girl who's pregnant, then on her next appointment isn't? Try proving beyond a reasonable doubt that she purposely terminated the pregnancy.
July 30, 201511 yr You REALLY just compared abortion to getting a tattoo? You might want to rethink that. No, you said you don't know how someone can be against something and still think it should be legal. Hence why I asked if that was a universal opinion or logic you apply only to abortion.
July 30, 201511 yr Here's a portion of an article that addresses this question from the past. The full article can be found here http://www.aul.org/2010/04/why-the-states-did-not-prosecute-women-for-abortion-before-roe-v-wade/ from Americans United for Life web site: Why did the states target abortionists and treat women as a victim of the abortionist? It was based on three policy judgments: the point of abortion law is effective enforcement against abortionists, the woman is the second victim of the abortionist, and prosecuting women is counterproductive to the goal of effective enforcement of the law against abortionists. The irony is that, instead of states prosecuting women, the exact opposite is true. To protect their own hide, it was abortionists (like the cult hero and abortionist Ruth Barnett when Oregon last prosecuted her in 1968), who, when they were prosecuted, sought to haul the women they aborted into court. As a matter of criminal evidentiary law, if the court treated the woman as an accomplice, she could not testify against the abortionist, and the case against the abortionist would be thrown out. There are “only two cases in which a woman was charged in any State with participating in her own abortion”: from Pennsylvania in 19111 and from Texas in 1922.2 There is no documented case since 1922 in which a woman has been charged in an abortion in the United States.
July 30, 201511 yr Because if you make it illegal women won't stop having abortions, they'll just stop doing it safely with medical professionals. Now tell me how you're going to prosecute the 18 year old girl who's pregnant, then on her next appointment isn't? Try proving beyond a reasonable doubt that she purposely terminated the pregnancy. The 18 yr old girl isn't prosecuted the abortionist is. It was done this way in the past. It could be done again. And I think with what we have learned since Roe v Wade it could be done in a much better way now than then and given all the resources that have been geared to making abortion unnecessary (pregnancy help centers for instance), there would be far fewer of those who would do it illegally.
July 30, 201511 yr The 18 yr old girl isn't prosecuted the abortionist is. It was done this way in the past. It could be done again. And I think with what we have learned since Roe v Wade it could be done in a much better way now than then and given all the resources that have been geared to making abortion unnecessary (pregnancy help centers for instance), there would be far fewer of those who would do it illegally. Women aren't going to go to doctors, that's my point. They'll do it themselves or with the help of untrained friends or family. There's no one to prosecute, and if there is, there's no way to prove it.
July 30, 201511 yr Well done, Clyde. Maybe we should keep an abortion thread with a sticky at the top to keep every other thread on this board from turning into an abortion thread.
July 30, 201511 yr Author For those that would criminalize it: 1. Give us a summary of why you think it should be a crime and then give us your suggested punishment. 2. Who would you charge? Mother? Doctor? Both? If only one, why? Since I asked I'll give some fodder for discussion here. I voted "morally against but legal." I can't wrap my head around putting a female in prison for this. I do not equate it with murder, thus, my position. You?
July 30, 201511 yr No, you said you don't know how someone can be against something and still think it should be legal. Hence why I asked if that was a universal opinion or logic you apply only to abortion. Abortion...we weren't talking about anything else. I HATE tuna casserole and would never eat it, but I don't think there should be a law against making it. Abortion is the killing of the innocent who has no way to protect itself and ONLY has those that stand against it to try and protect it.
July 30, 201511 yr Author I think abortion should be illegal except in the case where the life of the mother is surely at stake. . Can I assume your basis is that it's a human life that is being ended?
July 30, 201511 yr Author I'll say it again. Whatever punishment you make for aborting a fetus, if illegal, it is unenforceable. There is literally no way to prosecute the crime. Details, please.
July 30, 201511 yr Can I assume your basis is that it's a human life that is being ended? The crux of the matter.
July 30, 201511 yr I told someone I should make a sign that said, "Unborn Lives Matter", obviously tying the idea of some that society unfortunately doesn't value black lives and in the same way, it certainly doesn't value the lives of the unborn. I am a firm believer in protecting rights and liberties (pro 2nd Amendment, against prohibition of alcohol and gambling, etc.) and I understand wanting to give women the right to do with their body as they choose however, when that right (or any right for that matter) takes away from the rights of another, and the right to life being the most valuable right, that would be pretty much the only case I can accept taking away a right and why I am Pro Life and see zero hypocrisy in being Pro Life. Maybe someday medical science will discover a way for a woman to terminate a pregnancy but instead of butchering the child, it could be removed from her womb and put into a sterile woman's or some other way to incubate the child till ready to be introduced the world. That may be the only way we can get rid of the stain of abortion.
July 30, 201511 yr My honest answer is "I don't know." I'm not very passionate about it and I mostly avoid these debates. I don't believe "life" begins at conception in the sense that terminating a pregnancy at that point is tantamount to murder as it is part of a woman's body. I also don't believe abortions where the fetus would be viable outside of the womb should be allowed unless the life of the mother is at stake.
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