Curious your thoughts on some of the above mentioned kids that may not be getting the coaching they need to succeed at the middle school level. I am quite sure that has played into the decision of some of these parent and their children. Just an opinion.

 

I have thought the same thing about wanting better coaching at the middle school level but here's a thought showing the downside of that. If a parent pushes a child to try out or play at the HS level due to poor coaching at the MS level they aren't going to be happy. A child will get more rigorous training during practices at HS level but the truth is we all want to see our child on the floor in live game mode. I would much rather have my child "suffer" through middle school ball and provide them with ball training and speed/agility outside of school practices and see them play full games at that level, rather than sit the bench at a higher level.

Sitting the bench is no fun for anyone, the parents, the coach and especially the kid. The kid begins to doubt their own ability and it has nothing to do with that it has to do with kids that are older and more experienced. Just my opinion.

Seems like moving middle school players up to Varsity is a new trend in NKY girls basketball since it seems most schools have at least 1 MS on the team. I could see this being necessary for small schools to field a team, but most large schools aren't hurting for players. I'm left to wonder if this is really due to talent or for status purposes. I have also heard that this movement isn't coach sought (not only because recruiting violation)& if anything, coaches have no say in the matter. Once on the team, the coach does have a say about playing time. I'd be curious how the coaches feel about parents going above their heads forcing a player to be on the team. I have officiated many youth leagues, so I have seen most if not all the young AAU talent & in my book there isn't one single MS kid that belongs as a Varsity starter &/or bench. I could see many benefiting by playing up on freshman or JV team, but Varsity is a whole different atmosphere. I can't tell you the number of times I have watch a truly talented young player with a big time future, derailed because the parents pushed them to play up. Basketball is a sport that requires an even 50% talent & 50% drive. These young players may have the ability/talent to play up, but maturity-wise not prepared for that side of the game. The mental half can take a confident middle school player & cause them to get frustrated because they are not getting the same results they did in middle school ball. The pressure to measure up or prove they belong can become overwhelming which may lead to lower self-esteem/confidence level & once that happens, it is very hard to get that competitive edge back!! IMO...unless a MS player is single handedly destroying other peer teams/opponents, they belong playing with their age group/grade. NKY no doubt has a very talented group of young players coming up, but none of those players are above the development years middle school is meant for!!!

 

Usually agree with you, but have to throw out a couple examples. And maybe this year is true with only one exception...but last year, Ally Neace, Lexi Stapleton and Lexi Held all started and were significant contributors. Also, Zoie Barth was HHS' 6th man and contributed greatly. Zoie was only a 7th grader last year. The thing is, those girls play at an elite level and do not play much local aau events. So not everyone sees them locally. ALL are very worthy of starting and playing varsity. Zoie is only an 8th grader this year and is top 6 (imo) on a very good HHS team. It can happen and I think these girls are exceptions to the rule and you are correct on most cases.

 

Zoie Barth would destroy her peer group in the 8th grade and maybe even two classes above. She lit up the JV scene as a 7th grader. Again, an exception. There are about 7 others that dominate that age as well. 3 go to conner, 2 go to HHS and two will go to Ryle.

Curious your thoughts on some of the above mentioned kids that may not be getting the coaching they need to succeed at the middle school level. I am quite sure that has played into the decision of some of these parent and their children. Just an opinion.

 

I agree. And some do not get challenged enough either. Just speaking from experience and most of you know who I am, but the Conner and HHS team has not been challenged in two years, other than playing each other. That's not a cocky statement at all. It's the facts. That means that 99% of the time, their coaches have been trying to figure out ways not to embarrass the other teams. That starts with taking away court time from the dominate kids and not being able to put those kids on the floor at the same time. So yes, 90% of the time the MS program works out for most kids. I get it. But selfishly, it has no value for some that aren't getting challenged and aren't even able to create cohesion with teammates on their level because you can barely ever play them together. I have said I would want my kid to play up to be challenged, not as a status. I want my kid to play up so she doesn't be bored and lazy. I don't really care if she wins a game or even starts or plays as long as she's getting challenged and coached up in practice and games every day. We have a great MS coach and we are very lucky. But game situations are not challenging for a few of our girls. It is what it is.

I have thought the same thing about wanting better coaching at the middle school level but here's a thought showing the downside of that. If a parent pushes a child to try out or play at the HS level due to poor coaching at the MS level they aren't going to be happy. A child will get more rigorous training during practices at HS level but the truth is we all want to see our child on the floor in live game mode. I would much rather have my child "suffer" through middle school ball and provide them with ball training and speed/agility outside of school practices and see them play full games at that level, rather than sit the bench at a higher level.

Sitting the bench is no fun for anyone, the parents, the coach and especially the kid. The kid begins to doubt their own ability and it has nothing to do with that it has to do with kids that are older and more experienced. Just my opinion.

 

If the kid is only going to sit the bench if she is moved up, I agree. But if the coach makes the move, I don't believe they are moving kids up to sit. I believe if the coach is making the move, they are moving them up to play. I don't know of too many examples of kids moving up levels and sitting. Maybe I'm wrong.

I agree. And some do not get challenged enough either. Just speaking from experience and most of you know who I am, but the Conner and HHS team has not been challenged in two years, other than playing each other. That's not a cocky statement at all. It's the facts. That means that 99% of the time, their coaches have been trying to figure out ways not to embarrass the other teams. That starts with taking away court time from the dominate kids and not being able to put those kids on the floor at the same time. So yes, 90% of the time the MS program works out for most kids. I get it. But selfishly, it has no value for some that aren't getting challenged and aren't even able to create cohesion with teammates on their level because you can barely ever play them together. I have said I would want my kid to play up to be challenged, not as a status. I want my kid to play up so she doesn't be bored and lazy. I don't really care if she wins a game or even starts or plays as long as she's getting challenged and coached up in practice and games every day. We have a great MS coach and we are very lucky. But game situations are not challenging for a few of our girls. It is what it is.

 

I totally agree with this. On the better middle school teams the top 5 players get half the playing time as the bottom 5 players.

Most schools are moving up kids, it's the lastest fad. Younger girls are quicker and scrappy. When girls mature they lose some of their speed and agility. Some don't like to dive on the court anymore do to injuries. I still feel the better programs start jrs amd senoirs.

Usually agree with you, but have to throw out a couple examples. And maybe this year is true with only one exception...but last year, Ally Neace, Lexi Stapleton and Lexi Held all started and were significant contributors. Also, Zoie Barth was HHS' 6th man and contributed greatly. Zoie was only a 7th grader last year. The thing is, those girls play at an elite level and do not play much local aau events. So not everyone sees them locally. ALL are very worthy of starting and playing varsity. Zoie is only an 8th grader this year and is top 6 (imo) on a very good HHS team. It can happen and I think these girls are exceptions to the rule and you are correct on most cases.

 

Zoie Barth would destroy her peer group in the 8th grade and maybe even two classes above. She lit up the JV scene as a 7th grader. Again, an exception. There are about 7 others that dominate that age as well. 3 go to conner, 2 go to HHS and two will go to Ryle.

 

You are so right about the barth girl nothing to offer the middle school level! Same goes for the jordan girl at conner have seen them both play a few times in the past. Fully expect conner to use her the same way Barth has been used at highlands. Both really nice players that have high basketball IQ`S.

Most schools are moving up kids, it's the lastest fad. Younger girls are quicker and scrappy. When girls mature they lose some of their speed and agility. Some don't like to dive on the court anymore do to injuries. I still feel the better programs start jrs amd senoirs.

 

I agree with all the younger kids notes you mention. They are hungry and the older girls develop more "distractions".

 

Here are some of the better programs that have or recently had young contributors.

 

Highlands started 3 sophs and 2 jrs last year, with a 7th grader as 6th man by end of the year. They years before, HHS lost in the regional finals with two starting freshman guards. Conner was very similar with two freshman guards. Ryle started 4 sophs last year. Cooper started and 8th graders last year. Scott started two 8th graders. Holmes started an 8th grader, a freshman and two sophs last year. Beechwood started a freshman and two sophs last year. Dixie started two freshman last year. I'd say it's more prevalent than you think. Yes, it's really nice to have a great team of JR's and Srs, but that is actually the minority these days and it's not getting any better. ND had it last year and HC has it this year. And I guess NCC had the majority of jr and sr last year. But outside of that, the rest have a lot of underclass contributors.

You are so right about the barth girl nothing to offer the middle school level! Same goes for the jordan girl at conner have seen them both play a few times in the past. Fully expect conner to use her the same way Barth has been used at highlands. Both really nice players that have high basketball IQ`S.

 

Absolutely love this girl!!!! The only difference here is the size. Not height, size. Barth's body is much more ready for the pounding of high school play. (hard to talk about young ladies bodies on here)...but those that know them both know what I mean! But that's a big reason Barth can do it and others can't at this point. Strength!

I absolutely do not agree with MS players playing up and agree the better programs will have most Jr and Sr players. MS is MS and HS is HS, Ky need to set up their own MS championship/district series like Ohio and many many other states. We talk about a shortage in some schools, that if without the MS program, they would be lost? To me its a cop out. I see it as some kids who develop later on, are now in HS, look at the roster and say, oh well, no reason for me to even come out or try out, they have their team. I see 6 ft girls walking the halls all the time and don't play anything, I ask why? Discouraged because of how they were treated at the MS level and passed on because of some girls moving up, bureaucracy of it all. HS sports is for HS kids, period! I'm glad they changed the rules and need to change it again in my opinion. Comment all you want, disagree, fact is good athletes that could be great, get passed by all the time. MS playing HS, just confirms that stress even more, the pressure to win and always get the new best thing in. They MAYBE quicker and scrappier but most are less mature, make fewer good decisions, react vs think through the play, in some cases ends up hurting the team than helps, yet we push and push.....:ohbrother:

I agree with all the younger kids notes you mention. They are hungry and the older girls develop more "distractions".

 

Here are some of the better programs that have or recently had young contributors.

 

Highlands started 3 sophs and 2 jrs last year, with a 7th grader as 6th man by end of the year. They years before, HHS lost in the regional finals with two starting freshman guards. Conner was very similar with two freshman guards. Ryle started 4 sophs last year. Cooper started and 8th graders last year. Scott started two 8th graders. Holmes started an 8th grader, a freshman and two sophs last year. Beechwood started a freshman and two sophs last year. Dixie started two freshman last year. I'd say it's more prevalent than you think. Yes, it's really nice to have a great team of JR's and Srs, but that is actually the minority these days and it's not getting any better. ND had it last year and HC has it this year. And I guess NCC had the majority of jr and sr last year. But outside of that, the rest have a lot of underclass contributors.

 

That was because with the new coaches, players were told, we are building from the younger players up. looking at 2-3 years, not now. Discouraged, some of those talented, good Jrs and Sr that had played hard on JV and Varsity with Olvario, quit (M Martin is a great player and not playing this year) why?

That was because with the new coaches, players were told, we are building from the younger players up. looking at 2-3 years, not now. Discouraged, some of those talented, good Jrs and Sr that had played hard on JV and Varsity with Olvario, quit (M Martin is a great player and not playing this year) why?

 

I don't know her, so I can't tell ya.

 

Anyone from over there know why she isn't playing? Does she play a different sport that she wants to focus on? Did she get passed up? Did she feel like others passed her and didn't want to devote the time? Did she feel overlooked by coaches because of younger players. Come on Ryle fans...what's up?

I absolutely do not agree with MS players playing up and agree the better programs will have most Jr and Sr players. MS is MS and HS is HS, Ky need to set up their own MS championship/district series like Ohio and many many other states. We talk about a shortage in some schools, that if without the MS program, they would be lost? To me its a cop out. I see it as some kids who develop later on, are now in HS, look at the roster and say, oh well, no reason for me to even come out or try out, they have their team. I see 6 ft girls walking the halls all the time and don't play anything, I ask why? Discouraged because of how they were treated at the MS level and passed on because of some girls moving up, bureaucracy of it all. HS sports is for HS kids, period! I'm glad they changed the rules and need to change it again in my opinion. Comment all you want, disagree, fact is good athletes that could be great, get passed by all the time. MS playing HS, just confirms that stress even more, the pressure to win and always get the new best thing in. They MAYBE quicker and scrappier but most are less mature, make fewer good decisions, react vs think through the play, in some cases ends up hurting the team than helps, yet we push and push.....:ohbrother:

 

Shocking!! But I absolutely agree with this post!!!!

No one will truly say or have a real answer but Maddie, herself, tenacious emotional player, play to win. She was not the only one who quit that had strong JV and Varsity experience that was an upper classman. She did not play another sport but was heavily involved in AAU BBall. It is what it is, fact is, I do not agree with MS players playing up and neither do most other states, but yeah I know, we're in KY.

Shocking!! But I absolutely agree with this post!!!![/QUOTE]

 

I have my moments...:ylsuper: