No one will truly say or have a real answer but Maddie, herself, tenacious emotional player, play to win. She was not the only one who quit that had strong JV and Varsity experience that was an upper classman. She did not play another sport but was heavily involved in AAU BBall. It is what it is, fact is, I do not agree with MS players playing up and neither do most other states, but yeah I know, we're in KY.

 

You know I love ya...but let me ask you and DG this. No wrong answer. But what do you do here. In the past two years, HHS has had enough HS girls to form all three teams. However, when this group of seniors were freshman, they had 4 freshman come out for bball. They brought up Coffey and Leigh to play freshman with 7 kids. They won the freshman regional tournament. If they were not allowed to move up, none of them would have had that experience, which was great for all of them. That same year, numbers were down so much, that 5 of those girls on that freshman team actually dressed and played some varsity...some more than others. That was with Adler already starting varsity as an 8th grader. Next year, the current 8th grade team only has 7 kids on it right now. In my opinion, they could lose 1-2 more by next year. The 4-5 they have left will be very strong and may even move up to JV.

 

So my question is...do you just not have a freshman team or do you move up MS kids and then allow even more MS kids to experience success on their MS team.

 

BTW, this 8th grade class had 14 kids on it in the 6th grade.

It sucks, but you don't move up, develop them at that level and let them experience a championship at their level (MS) and they can say they were the biggest, baddest MS team ever. You don't have a Fresh team, you play with what you have. HHS Volleyball almost didn't have a Fresh team this year, it is what it is. Ryle won the Regional Fresh tourney 2 years ago, 28-1 record, they had all Fresh on it, not one MS, they were loaded, they were lucky. I've seen MS players come in, think they will be 6 ft by the time they are Jrs, they end up not, end up avg, once they have to match strength to skill on the court. It's HS and HS students deserve to be treated as such and earn the respect for it, "you will get your turn one day" is an old saying but means a lot. What if you get a couple of families that come in your district, have girls that are HS and are dominant players, 2-3 players. Now they push your previous starters from the year before out? Now you have more than enough HS players to fill your team, do you now demote the MS player back, thanks but no thanks, you were good enough for Varsity before but we need you to play JV or Fresh. How would that play on that players overall psyche?

 

Look at Delle Donne of U of Maine fame and now WNBA. Veered as the next Michael Jordan, 6'4, recruited by and signed with UConn but never went. Got so burned out by it all, left basketball completely and played volleyball for UMaine for a couple years to finally go back to Bball and now is in the WNBA. You think the pressure of all the AAU, HS, college recruiting, expectations didn't get to her, and she was the best of the best? How do you think expectation lyes on these MS girls? I see the distress in there eyes when they don't make the wining shot and feel like they lost it all for their team. Now for HS Varsity, when expectations is to win it all. Jr and Sr players looking at them, upset because their HS dreams of wining a championship, or that game, are gone and they didn't get the go, to shoot the last shot.

 

HS plays HS, MS plays MS.....I did it growing up (easily could have played all my Varsity sports as a MS but did not), and many many more did as well. It would be interesting to actually get statistics on how many MS players who played up actually played at the next level?

It sucks, but you don't move up, develop them at that level and let them experience a championship at their level (MS) and they can say they were the biggest, baddest MS team ever. You don't have a Fresh team, you play with what you have. HHS Volleyball almost didn't have a Fresh team this year, it is what it is. Ryle won the Regional Fresh tourney 2 years ago, 28-1 record, they had all Fresh on it, not one MS, they were loaded, they were lucky. I've seen MS players come in, think they will be 6 ft by the time they are Jrs, they end up not, end up avg, once they have to match strength to skill on the court. It's HS and HS students deserve to be treated as such and earn the respect for it, "you will get your turn one day" is an old saying but means a lot. What if you get a couple of families that come in your district, have girls that are HS and are dominant players, 2-3 players. Now they push your previous starters from the year before out? Now you have more than enough HS players to fill your team, do you now demote the MS player back, thanks but no thanks, you were good enough for Varsity before but we need you to play JV or Fresh. How would that play on that players overall psyche?

 

Look at Delle Donne of U of Maine fame and now WNBA. Veered as the next Michael Jordan, 6'4, recruited by and signed with UConn but never went. Got so burned out by it all, left basketball completely and played volleyball for UMaine for a couple years to finally go back to Bball and now is in the WNBA. You think the pressure of all the AAU, HS, college recruiting, expectations didn't get to her, and she was the best of the best? How do you think expectation lyes on these MS girls? I see the distress in there eyes when they don't make the wining shot and feel like they lost it all for their team. Now for HS Varsity, when expectations is to win it all. Jr and Sr players looking at them, upset because their HS dreams of wining a championship, or that game, are gone and they didn't get the go, to shoot the last shot.

 

HS plays HS, MS plays MS.....I did it growing up (easily could have played all my Varsity sports as a MS but did not), and many many more did as well. It would be interesting to actually get statistics on how many MS players who played up actually played at the next level?

 

Some very good points and there are examples of the other way too. Let me ask you this...In society, could your scenario play out in the work place? The example of someone coming in and taking your role? Maybe because your're inexperienced or that person just has more training? Maybe in a couple years, you work your way back into the role. Maybe you get frustrated and quit. Maybe you go home and tell the wife the boss just doesn't like you! My point being, sports are all about life lessons. If your scenario played out at a high school, it wouldn't be all bad. They are learning from it.

 

Secondly, burnout can happen whether you play up or not. Especially with girls because priorities start to change as they get older. The "distractions" come into play much more for girls than they do boys. I'll say it again "those goofy girls are wired differently than guys!".

 

Third question...if you had a kid that was intellectually gifted, do you allow them to take advanced classes...maybe even classes above their grade level. Or do you make them sit in a classroom bored to death with the other students that are nowhere near his level?

No one will truly say or have a real answer but Maddie, herself, tenacious emotional player, play to win. She was not the only one who quit that had strong JV and Varsity experience that was an upper classman. She did not play another sport but was heavily involved in AAU BBall. It is what it is, fact is, I do not agree with MS players playing up and neither do most other states, but yeah I know, we're in KY.

 

I agree with the bolded part so would think none of us should speculate nor imply.

I have no problem with the more talented girls playing up at all! And my opinion is based on not just physical skill set but socially a 7th or 8th grader is not and IMO not ready to interact with young ladies that are socially and physically more advanced! In Ohio like many other states you must be a freshman to participate at a varsity level and it does not hurt these young ladies in recruitment whatsoever!! A talented 8th grader will be a talented freshman and at that point IMO should be able to participate at whatever their skill level or school team needs dictate! With that being said I also know what it's like when your child has a bad experience from a bad middle school coach! My daughter's first experience with basketball was in the 6th grade and the coach took the job for the stipend check and it was a horrible experience for her! She quit basketball and became a cheerleader the following year with no intention of ever playing the game again! ( tough pill to swallow)As a parent I wanted her to move up give it another chance but it wasn't my place to ask or demand that. If she were good enough at the time they would have moved her up with out my interference or influence. So I think it comes down to whether your daughter is physically and mentally capable of handling a move up but i'm for doing it in moderation move skilled MS children up to a freshman/JV level and see how they fare there but do it for the child not the parent and if the kid is good enough they will find their way to top!

I have no problem with the more talented girls playing up at all! And my opinion is based on not just physical skill set but socially a 7th or 8th grader is not and IMO not ready to interact with young ladies that are socially and physically more advanced! In Ohio like many other states you must be a freshman to participate at a varsity level and it does not hurt these young ladies in recruitment whatsoever!! A talented 8th grader will be a talented freshman and at that point IMO should be able to participate at whatever their skill level or school team needs dictate! With that being said I also know what it's like when your child has a bad experience from a bad middle school coach! My daughter's first experience with basketball was in the 6th grade and the coach took the job for the stipend check and it was a horrible experience for her! She quit basketball and became a cheerleader the following year with no intention of ever playing the game again! So I think it comes down to whether your daughter is physically and mentally capable of handling a move up but i'm for doing it in moderation move skilled MS child up to a freshman/JV level and see how they fare there but do it for the child not the parent and if the kid is good enough they will find their way to top!

 

First bold - I agree. That part is scary for sure. The coach needs to handle that delicately, but no matter what you do, it can be a "not so great" experience overall.

 

Second bold - OH NO!!!!!! WORST CASE SCENARIO!!!!

So if a talented 8th grader can play on the varsity level (not in any freshman or JV games) she shouldn't be given the opportunity to play up?

All great points too....but we are talking MS vs HS sports/athletes and if they should play up. Not academics and weather they should go to Harvard. There is no gifted and talented athletics criteria in HS for assessment, even though we think there is. lol

 

You're opening Pandora box by keeping that rule. I was 5'10, 240, 8th grader. Easily could have played up and destroyed the the Varsity level in football, should I have been allowed to move up? I did for Hockey but Football?

 

BBall is a contact sport, play that 8th grader coming up the lane on a 6 ft 200+ Sr beast that cruises them and slams them down on the court, blocking their shot because they didn't think to stop back, rather drive to the hoop, Kamikaze style. Noe what? At 12 years old their growth plates are still developing, (reason why we do not restrain kids on a upper body shoulder move) then they fall on their growing joint, being slammed by a stronger, faster, more developed player. Now what? Injuries, injuries, injuries, and everyone in the stands say "owwww, they should have never played that MS girl on that team".....

 

Do you know that amongst Football, Basketball is one of the sports they say that can cause major issue with growth development? The constant pounding and jarring of the joints, heightened by all the repetitive action, over use of playing the kids over and over again without proper rest or conditioning? Throw in higher caliber athletes, with higher expectation, with higher intensity that the MS player may not be accustomed to or be ready for. Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Not every MS player is ready for Varsity, even if the parent may think so. Just because your program lacks the numbers or involvement, doesn't mean your MS players are ready for the next level, its supply and demand. You move them up because you don't have enough, that's not based on skill, that's based on need. No longer is it about skill and weather they are good enough to play is it?

 

God help us if we start seeing a lack of involvement at the football level that we ask the MS players to play up? Suicide.....but that's the KHSAA rules. "My son is 6'4, weighs 280 and benches 300 and is 12 years old, he should play on the Varsity team"? How big was Shack at 12?

So if a talented 8th grader can play on the varsity level (not in any freshman or JV games) she shouldn't be given the opportunity to play up?

 

Who are you asking? I assume not me! I think yes, but there are some very good points and I don't think it should be as common as kids leaving early for the NBA! I do think there are some..

 

But I would put it through a mental checklist:

+Is she REALLY good enough to play VARSITY (or whatever level you think). I mean really. No doubt! Also, sometimes they may be good enough to play on their high school team, but are they ready to compete against the teams their HS plays. In down years, kids have more of a chance to move up. But if they move up and can't handle playing other good players on the other team, it can sometimes do more damage than good.

 

+Is she physically able to handle a varsity schedule. You can have all the skills you want, but may not be able to take the beating of everyday. That takes a lot out of a kid. Some of the girls are bruisers at the varsity level...and not just the bigs!

 

+Can she mentally handle the pressure. A lot more pressure from varsity coaches and JR and SR's staring at you when you screw up! Also mental pressure comes from disgruntled upper class man, whose spot you just took!

 

+Can they handle the speed and quick decision making required that many levels up? A great player can look horrible and get discouraged very quickly when they become "the deer in the headlights".

So if a talented 8th grader can play on the varsity level (not in any freshman or JV games) she shouldn't be given the opportunity to play up?

If the player is talented enough to play significant minutes in a Varsity game then that's for a coach to decide but if that player is going to sit at the end of an 18 man bench, I don't see the reason for them to play up. What opportunity does that give a kid??

All great points too....but we are talking MS vs HS sports/athletes and if they should play up. Not academics and weather they should go to Harvard. There is no gifted and talented athletics criteria in HS for assessment, even though we think there is. lol

 

You're opening Pandora box by keeping that rule. I was 5'10, 240, 8th grader. Easily could have played up and destroyed the the Varsity level in football, should I have been allowed to move up? I did for Hockey but Football?

 

BBall is a contact sport, play that 8th grader coming up the lane on a 6 ft 200+ Sr beast that cruises them and slams them down on the court, blocking their shot because they didn't think to stop back, rather drive to the hoop, Kamikaze style. Noe what? At 12 years old their growth plates are still developing, (reason why we do not restrain kids on a upper body shoulder move) then they fall on their growing joint, being slammed by a stronger, faster, more developed player. Now what? Injuries, injuries, injuries, and everyone in the stands say "owwww, they should have never played that MS girl on that team".....

 

Do you know that amongst Football, Basketball is one of the sports they say that can cause major issue with growth development? The constant pounding and jarring of the joints, heightened by all the repetitive action, over use of playing the kids over and over again without proper rest or conditioning? Throw in higher caliber athletes, with higher expectation, with higher intensity that the MS player may not be accustomed to or be ready for. Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Not every MS player is ready for Varsity, even if the parent may think so. Just because your program lacks the numbers or involvement, doesn't mean your MS players are ready for the next level, its supply and demand. You move them up because you don't have enough, that's not based on skill, that's based on need. No longer is it about skill and weather they are good enough to play is it?

 

God help us if we start seeing a lack of involvement at the football level that we ask the MS players to play up? Suicide.....but that's the KHSAA rules. "My son is 6'4, weighs 280 and benches 300 and is 12 years old, he should play on the Varsity team"? How big was Shack at 12?

 

I know...My point is...we would want to challenge them intellectually. Why wouldn't I want to challenge athletically. We would have to qualify the smart kid by test scores and evaluations. We would have to qualify the athlete by evaluations as well. (tryouts). We put our kids mental state in the classroom in the hands of professionals to evaluate whether a kid could perform academically or not. Why wouldn't we put our athletes in the hands of the professionals to tell us whether they think our kid can handle it athletically?

 

I know I'm stretching it! And yes, there can be physical differences that can cause harm. I get it. However, I'm not talking about every kid. I'm talking about the kids that CAN do it and be successful. And in concept, football should be the same as girls basketball...if you think about it black and white. However, reality tells us they are much different and hard to compare apple to apples with those two sports.

If the player is talented enough to play significant minutes in a Varsity game then that's for a coach to decide but if that player is going to sit at the end of an 18 man bench, I don't see the reason for them to play up. What opportunity does that give a kid??

 

This is what we are talking about!

 

However, I am hearing rumors of Boone Co schools starting to reach into the MS because of the new rule change and trying to get their hands on the best of the middle school kids and playing them against other Boone schools. Again, rumors, but if that's happening, then they better figure out how to put a stop to that asap or it will escalate into a ton of issues. I hope that's not really the case...bringing up kids because they can and to keep the other schools off of them.

This is what we are talking about!

 

However, I am hearing rumors of Boone Co schools starting to reach into the MS because of the new rule change and trying to get their hands on the best of the middle school kids and playing them against other Boone schools. Again, rumors, but if that's happening, then they better figure out how to put a stop to that asap or it will escalate into a ton of issues. I hope that's not really the case...bringing up kids because they can and to keep the other schools off of them.

 

If it is to bring kids up so other schools don't get them then I think that is wrong. But some on this thread seemed to be stating it was either all or nothing. I just believe it depends on the individual kid. There shouldn't be a rule of thought that all MS are not ready for HS ball or that they should only be allowed to play freshman and JV.

 

It is a valid point that if a MS player is not strong she can be hurt by an older, stronger player. However you can be a small 9th or 10th grader and hurt by a bigger stronger senior as well.

KHSAA has set the rules and standards. It is allowed. My argument is Ky is the minority in this amongst states. Your also telling me MS kids are so good (freakish) that they can play up not one level but 3? A lot of comments have been "if we didn't have the MS players, we would not field HS teams". So is is about true "freakish talent" moving up or supply and demand? I've come across few MS players of such talent that they deserve to play up. Not only that, what does it truly mean to someone when they get their HS letterman jacket and they are MS? Apples to oranges, hate to see a talented Sr. marked to win a state championship, let's say in a track event, only to be outdone by that freakish 8th grader that beat them. How's that feel to look back at your HS athletic carreer. That 8th grader has her whole HS ahead of her to be the best of the best, now they've taken away from someone else. That is not right. Same goes for those 5 spots on a Bball team. Colleges are looking to recruit at different years, if your loaded up with 8th graders and uderclassman, that upper classman gets passed up, no chance of scholarship money. I know, I know, that comes from AAU play but still. My freshman year Greg Ostertag was also a fresh. Waist to my chest high at 7'2. Was he talented or just big? He went pro, great shot blocker. Weight room ethics, very weak!, Was one of the weakest on team, not a hard worker in my mind. To me, he was the freak, could see playing HS as a MS player. He was from Texas so he did not. Those players are few and far between. Everyone knows the "true" talents are not on the courts of the NBA, but backcourts of the inner city, kids who didn't get a chance or failed because the educational system failed them. New NBA rule, have to play at least one year of college to play pro. It's about development, MS players are not at the same level. Your argument is about supply.

It is my understanding that Maddie has already leapfrogged a lot of those players, and has been starting in scrimmages at the point. In fact, it is my understanding that the Boone County schools have a rule that she would not even be allowed to play varsity, which she certainly is, unless she was in the top rotation of the players, either starting or one of the first couple off of the bench.

 

Maddie is going to be a great player and so is Juliet and Lauren and all three can make contributions now. Please let's not put undue pressure on these outstanding young ladies by starting to recant our 3rd 4th and 5th person interpretations of how a practice session did or did not go. RC asked for some Union input..here ya go:

 

1) There is no written rule on Boone County middle school players moving up..therefore it's subject to the interpretation of the person relaying what they heard. Henry..if you analyze your own statement you could deduct it makes no sense. Ryle has two 8th graders and a 7th grader that have made the varsity team. If what you said were accurate, all three would start or be the 6th, 7th, and 8th player in. C'mon man. With that said...any of the 3 or all 3 could contribute.

 

2) Ryle's four returning starters are as solid as any team would want and here's the beauty...NO returning starter should think their spot is owed to them based on anything other than their "bringing it" every day in practice and showing their leadership on and off the floor. Lady Raiders are blessed with 10 upper classman (9 Jrs and a SR). 7 of the 9 Jrs had intense AAU experiences over the summer and all improved their game as did many others in the 9th

 

3) When you add #1 and #2..here's what ya get: 4 returning JR starters of Lang, Jump, Jones, and Schwartz with several other solid upperclassman and 3 outstanding middle school players...all capable of stepping in. Look for a very competitive team coming your way from Union!