Ananias & Sapphira?

 

Good point.

I say he does not afflict people with diseases as punishment anymore. The Ananias and Sapphira thing you bring up is intriguing though.

Ananias & Sapphira?

 

Where does it say God killed them?

 

Ananias and Sapphira

 

¹A man named Ananias, however, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property. ²He retained for himself, with his wife’s knowledge, some of the purchase price, took the remainder, and put it at the feet of the apostles. ³But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart so that you lied to the holy Spirit and retained part of the price of the land?a ⁴While it remained unsold, did it not remain yours? And when it was sold, was it not still under your control? Why did you contrive this deed? You have lied not to human beings, but to God.” ⁵When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last, and great fear came upon all who heard of it. ⁶The young men came and wrapped him up, then carried him out and buried him.

 

⁷After an interval of about three hours, his wife came in, unaware of what had happened. ⁸Peter said to her, “Tell me, did you sell the land for this amount?” She answered, “Yes, for that amount.” ⁹Then Peter said to her, “Why did you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen, the footsteps of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” ¹⁰At once, she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men entered they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. ¹¹And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.

Where does it say God killed them?

 

Ananias and Sapphira

 

¹A man named Ananias, however, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property. ²He retained for himself, with his wife’s knowledge, some of the purchase price, took the remainder, and put it at the feet of the apostles. ³But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart so that you lied to the holy Spirit and retained part of the price of the land?a ⁴While it remained unsold, did it not remain yours? And when it was sold, was it not still under your control? Why did you contrive this deed? You have lied not to human beings, but to God.” ⁵When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last, and great fear came upon all who heard of it. ⁶The young men came and wrapped him up, then carried him out and buried him.

 

⁷After an interval of about three hours, his wife came in, unaware of what had happened. ⁸Peter said to her, “Tell me, did you sell the land for this amount?” She answered, “Yes, for that amount.” ⁹Then Peter said to her, “Why did you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen, the footsteps of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” ¹⁰At once, she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men entered they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. ¹¹And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.

 

:lol2:

 

If you're going to be difficult, how about this:

 

"Immediately, because Herod did not give praise to God, an angel of the Lord struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died" (Acts 12:23).

For the record, I'm not saying God does what Clizzy has asked. I'm with Doc & what he said in #8. I don't feel like we can ever know with clarity, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

 

I tend to think that most calamity, disease, disaster, death is the result of a fallen world.

:lol2:

 

If you're going to be difficult, how about this:

 

"Immediately, because Herod did not give praise to God, an angel of the Lord struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died" (Acts 12:23).

 

Well I certainly don't think it's impossible for God to strike anyone down... If I believe that Revelation will be fulfilled, that would be pretty crazy to say that God isn't in the business of striking down any of mankind anymore. After all, God has a third of all humanity killed in a single verse of Revelation (9:18).

 

As with any boss in any position, you have to make it a point to make an example of something or someone in the early portion of your tenure. I would say the smiting of those few in the New Testament isn't unlike that scenario - a warning unto others - that God expects us to hold up our end of the Covenant.

 

One thing that I think is important to point out, for the most part, at least, there is nowhere that the Bible says that those who were struck down by God were necessarily cast into hell. Their life on earth ended, and they met their judgment...but there is nothing definitive to say that Ananias, Sapphira, and Herod aren't in Heaven.

No, in the simplest way, God does not punish us for sins at all. In the end, we decide whether we will live in eternal happiness or eternal suffering.

 

God merely gives us the directions; it is up to us if we want to use His map or ours.

Sorry for the delay in getting back. I read an interview with a quasi-celeb who said that AIDS came about so that God could punish gays.

 

I've often said that I am bad about being able to quote the Bible but I am 100% certain the above is inaccurate.

Sorry for the delay in getting back. I read an interview with a quasi-celeb who said that AIDS came about so that God could punish gays.

 

I've often said that I am bad about being able to quote the Bible but I am 100% certain the above is inaccurate.

 

That argument is almost ALWAYS defended on the basis of God's destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah...and if people want to base their defense of that on an Old Testament passage, then I always suggest that they don't ever make fun of bald folks, because the Old Testament had a pretty harsh punishment for that one too:

 

2 Kings 2:23-24

 

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.

Sorry for the delay in getting back. I read an interview with a quasi-celeb who said that AIDS came about so that God could punish gays.

 

I've often said that I am bad about being able to quote the Bible but I am 100% certain the above is inaccurate.

 

 

Sometimes celebrities should just stick to whatever made them a celebrity. Utter nonsense.

I choose to believe that God doesn't get that involved in our daily affairs. Because the temptation for me, then, is to praise God for the beautiful things that exist, but blame God for disease, starvation, crime..the ugly things, and wonder then why such an all-powerful being can't eliminate these bad things...why can't people and all animals die a peaceful deaths rather than so many by pain and suffering? What is the point of the Jonah story, and why must there be so many "tests" of loyalty. Because in my mind those would only belong to an insecure, egotistical and cruel diety which is not how I choose to picture God. Frankly, I think those stories are those of men portraying the weaknesses of the writers and how they would deal with situations.

I choose to believe that God doesn't get that involved in our daily affairs. Because the temptation for me, then, is to praise God for the beautiful things that exist, but blame God for disease, starvation, crime..the ugly things, and wonder then why such an all-powerful being can't eliminate these bad things...why can't people and all animals die a peaceful deaths rather than so many by pain and suffering? What is the point of the Jonah story, and why must there be so many "tests" of loyalty. Because in my mind those would only belong to an insecure, egotistical and cruel diety which is not how I choose to picture God. Frankly, I think those stories are those of men portraying the weaknesses of the writers and how they would deal with situations.

 

Because God loves us, he gave us free will, literally the ability to choose whatever we want. So, crime exists because people make the choice to go against God, or what they know is right. For starvation and disease, perhaps these things are tests (like you said) presented to us so that we have the opportunity to choose between Good and evil. If God did not give us challenges to see if we turn to Him or not, we would be living in a utilitarianism type society.

Because God loves us, he gave us free will, literally the ability to choose whatever we want. So, crime exists because people make the choice to go against God, or what they know is right. For starvation and disease, perhaps these things are tests (like you said) presented to us so that we have the opportunity to choose between Good and evil. If God did not give us challenges to see if we turn to Him or not, we would be living in a utilitarianism type society.

 

I have no problem with utopia. :lol2: But this is why I choose to not try to think about it too deeply and accept the situation on faith. Because, if I truly analyze I can find as many challenging facts as validating. Eg. Why would not a perfect, infallible being create a perfect world...at least on his/her second try? If not perfect, then void of suffering? So....I am better not getting caught up in the search for the reason for life.

Sorry for the delay in getting back. I read an interview with a quasi-celeb who said that AIDS came about so that God could punish gays.

 

I've often said that I am bad about being able to quote the Bible but I am 100% certain the above is inaccurate.

AIDS has killed more then just gays. If you believe God created AIDS to punish gays then you must think God is pretty dang incompetent.

I have no problem with utopia. :lol2: But this is why I choose to not try to think about it too deeply and accept the situation on faith. Because, if I truly analyze I can find as many challenging facts as validating. Eg. Why would not a perfect, infallible being create a perfect world...at least on his/her second try? If not perfect, then void of suffering? So....I am better not getting caught up in the search for the reason for life.

 

I obviously am not going to tell you what to do, but I'll just tell you what I think about it. I know that nothing that is real is that simple. That, at least for me, is what faith is - "being sure of what we hope fans certain of what we do not see." (That's from the Bible, 1 Corinthians somewhere). I think we suffer for the souls in purgatory. We try to suffer for others as Christ suffered for us.

 

Again, this is JMO, it's not my place to tell you what and how to believe.

I obviously am not going to tell you what to do, but I'll just tell you what I think about it. I know that nothing that is real is that simple. That, at least for me, is what faith is - "being sure of what we hope fans certain of what we do not see." (That's from the Bible, 1 Corinthians somewhere). I think we suffer for the souls in purgatory. We try to suffer for others as Christ suffered for us.

 

Again, this is JMO, it's not my place to tell you what and how to believe.

 

Thanks for your post. We are on the same page...

 

I believe your quote regarding faith, or at least one like it "faith is the substance of evidence not seen" can be found in Hebrews. And that it how I prefer to deal with my faith as well. And nor would I express my thoughts with the intention of persuading others to think that way. I am only sharing my personal survival toolbox as are you.