My request is, before looking to control fire arms or anything else for that matter, please educate yourself on them. A decade ago, I was for much of the modern gun control of today. However, once I educated myself I realized that was my emotion making my decisions not facts. I used to be rather anti NRA, I am still not a member of the NRA but realized my initial assumptions were wrong.

 

You know, Bert, I have been. I also believe there are those that do understand them as well as you do take the other side. Their legal, I can live with it and don't spend really much time thinking about it, however, that doesn't mean we shouldn't do whatever we can to make it as safe as we can. There are many solutions.

 

I have no problem with the NRA, however, their financial influence, as well as many other organizations, require me to pay little attention to their one-sided stance.

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Really, many will shoot until they are shot or shoot themselves, that is not the rule, that is your thinking. Most don't give a darn, they are mentally unstable in the first place. They want to kill as many as they can before they die it appears to me.

 

Statistics show most active shooters commit suicide once engaged. The tend to show cowardice behavior.

Their legal, I can live with it and don't spend really much time thinking about it, however, that doesn't mean we shouldn't do whatever we can to make it as safe as we can. There are many solutions.

I am as pro-gun as anyone, that said I am also a responsible gun owner and have no problems with some changes that have been proposed. What would you think could/should be done to make it as safe as possible?

Let's look at the laws that was changed in 2004 to allow these fast shooting magazines. Prior to that 10% of gun shootings were 10% by these types of weapons, since it has been legal that % has risen to 22%. So maybe the concealed weapon law has been successful as you say, but the weapons that are with the fast shooting magazines, not so much.

 

First, how do you define fast shooting magazines? Magazines to fit into fully automatic rifles or just magazines for rifles which have high capacity? Because so few fully automatic weapons are in the public, I am assuming magazines for rifles which have a high capacity.

 

Now, where did you get your numbers? I ask because every stat I have seen is that over 90% of all shootings are done with hand guns. So that leaves less than 10% Then, when you look at the less that 10% of shootings left, most of those are committed with shotguns not semi automatic rifles, so now you are down to 4% or less and due to the cost of a semi automatic rifle compared to a bolt action rifle, I am thinking shootings done by semi automatic rifles with high capacity magazines may not even be 1%.

First, how do you define fast shooting magazines? Magazines to fit into fully automatic rifles or just magazines for rifles which have high capacity? Because so few fully automatic weapons are in the public, I am assuming magazines for rifles which have a high capacity.

 

Now, where did you get your numbers? I ask because every stat I have seen is that over 90% of all shootings are done with hand guns. So that leaves less than 10% Then, when you look at the less that 10% of shootings left, most of those are committed with shotguns not semi automatic rifles, so now you are down to 4% or less and due to the cost of a semi automatic rifle compared to a bolt action rifle, I am thinking shootings done by semi automatic rifles with high capacity magazines may not even be 1%.

 

Sen. Frank Lautenberg: Why We Must Ban High-Capacity Gun Magazines

Here is one that gives several opinions on both sides.

 

Should High-Capacity Ammunition Magazines Be Banned?

I did not say all, I said the vast majority and I stand by that. I did look at their purpose today and that was it.

 

So you really believe the vast majority of people who go into gun stores every day to buy high capacity magazines are to go on a killing sprees?

 

Are you making a point or do you own one? Because in an earlier post you said in the response you didn't. .

 

Do I own a high capacity magazine or do I own a semi automatic rifle? I own high capacity magazines for my hand gun but I do not own semi automatic rifle.

Oh OK, your talking about High Capacity and not "Fast Shooting Magazines", never heard of Fast Shooting Magazines was thinking I may have been missing out on something cool

I am not a gun expert and don't pretend to be. However, just because we don't understand, doesn't mean we shouldn't find the right way to control them, if need be. I am not emotionally tied to this issue at all. Sure I am saddened and get angry when mass shootings happen. However, I have never been close to anyone who has been killed in any fashion and I feel extremely blessed in that and know that could change tomorrow. So emotions don't override my thinking, but I know it does on BOTH sides of this issue.

 

In fact, I really try and understand all sides of an issue such as this. As a general rule, I would take very seriously in taking any rights away if at all possible.

 

This is kind of where I am on the issue. I don't necessarily have an issue with owning guns. I used to hunt with my Dad (like hanging out with my Dad and Uncles, didn't so much like shooting animals). I no longer own any guns, but have considered purchasing one many times over the last 10 years. But I can't get around the fact that while it's my right to own a gun, (and I'd hate to be without one when I need it), simply having a gun increases the likelihood that either I get shot or some accident occurs because I own it. To me that's a burden I don't want to carry. I fear I'll misread a situation, someone else will misread a situation and something terrible could happen. Or being the responsible owner I think I'd be, my gun would likely be locked up and unloaded in the minute I'd need it most and do me absolutely no good. And I know that guns don't kill people, but people with guns kill people, and over 30,000 people every year are killed by someone with a gun. I'm not sure why it's only the 2nd amendment is the only one where people expect virtually no limits. You have freedom of religion, but that doesn't fly if it involves human sacrifice (or a less extreme example, any illegal activity). You have freedom of speech, but cannot yell fire in a movie theatre, or could get sued for slander if you falsely try to damage a person's reputation. Every right is subject to limitation if it infringes on the rights of others. It seems like many of the extreme gun advocates ignore those 30,000+ that are killed by someone with a gun, and just look at it as the price we have to pay for our absolute freedom. And yes I know many more are killed by cars, and drugs, etc. But again, we constantly work to reduce deaths caused by these things...for example, new laws (how about seatbelts, texting while driving, etc) . Every other problem and issue we have it's OK to work to solve, but problems with guns, it's like we shouldn't even try, and those that do are unamerican.

I have several high capacity magazines in my house and none them have shot anyone yet.

 

Want to know why I like them over magazines that shoot only 6 rounds as deemed appropriate in NYC...because I like to shoot and reloading a magazine after 6 shots waste a lot of time at the shooting range. And as far as home defense I would rather have ammo left in my gun and not need it, than need more and run out because I had a small capacity magazine.

 

Guns, bullets, magazines don't kill people...people do! Why is that so hard to understand? Legislate idiots and the mentally unstable and leave the law abiding citizens and their firearms alone.

So you really believe the vast majority of people who go into gun stores every day to buy high capacity magazines are to go on a killing sprees?

 

 

Do I own a high capacity magazine or do I own a semi automatic rifle? I own high capacity magazines for my hand gun but I do not own semi automatic rifle.

 

So I am learning this and will continue to. It is the high magazine capacity not the gun.

Sen. Frank Lautenberg: Why We Must Ban High-Capacity Gun Magazines

 

No one is arguing that a high-capacity magazine ban would have prevented our colleague Gabrielle Giffords from being shot -- but it might have spared the victims who were struck by bullets 11 through 31.

 

 

The bottom line: We shouldn't have to rely on innocent bystanders to protect lives when these lethal weapons are in the hands of killers.

 

Here is what he does not say - Ms. Giffords, for some reason, chose to not have armed security at the event. It was deliberate decision. It created a 'gun free zone' where almost universally all mass shootings take place. What would have made a difference is any armed presence - a security detail, a conceal carrier, anything. But it was a deliberate gun free zone - a shooting gallery.

 

And he is completely wrong about 11 to 31. How long does it take change a magazine? About 2 or 3 seconds. Its not like a revolver. Reload is push a button that usually ejects the empty and just pop in the new one. The magazine limitation is very hollow.

 

NY now has a law to limit magazine capacity to 7. Do you need more than 7? If you have multiple home invasion intruders lets see how that 7 works out. And don't waste any shots on 'warning shots' - unless you grabbed the spare mags you get 7...better shot to kill starting with the first one. In all seriousness if you fire 2 rounds the intruders may take off. But if they do not you now have 2 rounders for each....and many people can keep coming with 2 rounds in them. Especially if the are smaller caliber.

 

Here is the starter video on how guns work. Its not the magazine that defines the speed. Its full-auto or semi-auto. The vast majority of guns are semi-auto - 1 pull, 1 round.

 

But I can't get around the fact that while it's my right to own a gun, (and I'd hate to be without one when I need it), simply having a gun increases the likelihood that either I get shot or some accident occurs because I own it.

Driving increases the likelihood you'll be in a car wreck and injury yourself, your loved ones or an innocent bystander. Odds even higher if you happen to look at your cell phone while your driving or maybe have a couple of beers at Joe's Crab shack before heading home. Responsible gun owners are safe gun owners and practice gun safety all of the time.

 

Or being the responsible owner I think I'd be, my gun would likely be locked up and unloaded in the minute I'd need it most and do me absolutely no good.

There are numerous lock boxes available that can be opened in a second where you could safely keep a loaded firearm for self defense at home.

 

And I know that guns don't kill people, but people with guns kill people, and over 30,000 people every year are killed by someone with a gun.

The percentage of those killed by legal gun owners is very very small. I support prosecution and imprisonment of those that are illegally in possession of firearms. As I stated earlier 30-40 shootings per week in Chicago over the last few weeks where it is illegal for almost everyone to own a firearm. So outlawing them hasn't really helped in that case.

 

I'm not sure why it's only the 2nd amendment is the only one where people expect virtually no limits.

There are tons of limits, in fact there is an entire government agency tasked with supporting the gun laws in this country...the ATF. Been audited at work several times and these guys are crazy through when going through firearms transactions to ensure the law is followed.

 

Every right is subject to limitation if it infringes on the rights of others. It seems like many of the extreme gun advocates ignore those 30,000+ that are killed by someone with a gun, and just look at it as the price we have to pay for our absolute freedom.

There are limits and they have grown almost exponentially since the 1930's...see the post about sharing the cake at the beginning of this thread.

 

Every other problem and issue we have it's OK to work to solve, but problems with guns, it's like we shouldn't even try, and those that do are unamerican.

I'm all for trying, there are several things that need to be done that can be done. But just as the ridiculous Clinton Assault Weapons Ban of the 90's was more about cosmetics any changes now need to be focused on criminals and those with a propensity to commit crimes and not on the firearms, ammo, magazines or law abiding citizens.

 

I think HIPPA laws should be relaxed somewhat so that a mental illness data base is available to use when the NICS line is approving a firearm sale. Some conditions need to have restriction in place to disallow firearms purchases to those individuals.

 

Domestic Violence needs to be part of the approval process as well, currently it is not.

Driving increases the likelihood you'll be in a car wreck and injury yourself, your loved ones or an innocent bystander. Odds even higher if you happen to look at your cell phone while your driving or maybe have a couple of beers at Joe's Crab shack before heading home. Responsible gun owners are safe gun owners and practice gun safety all of the time.

 

There are numerous lock boxes available that can be opened in a second where you could safely keep a loaded firearm for self defense at home.

 

The percentage of those killed by legal gun owners is very very small. I support prosecution and imprisonment of those that are illegally in possession of firearms. As I stated earlier 30-40 shootings per week in Chicago over the last few weeks where it is illegal for almost everyone to own a firearm. So outlawing them hasn't really helped in that case.

 

There are tons of limits, in fact there is an entire government agency tasked with supporting the gun laws in this country...the ATF. Been audited at work several times and these guys are crazy through when going through firearms transactions to ensure the law is followed.

 

There are limits and they have grown almost exponentially since the 1930's...see the post about sharing the cake at the beginning of this thread.

 

I'm all for trying, there are several things that need to be done that can be done. But just as the ridiculous Clinton Assault Weapons Ban of the 90's was more about cosmetics any changes now need to be focused on criminals and those with a propensity to commit crimes and not on the firearms, ammo, magazines or law abiding citizens.

 

I think HIPPA laws should be relaxed somewhat so that a mental illness data base is available to use when the NICS line is approving a firearm sale. Some conditions need to have restriction in place to disallow firearms purchases to those individuals.

 

Domestic Violence needs to be part of the approval process as well, currently it is not.

 

I don't disagree with much of this, and I think you and I are pretty close (or at least a lot closer than you might think) in our thoughts. I'm in complete agreement with the Domestic Violence and regarding Hippa Laws...spot on in my opinion. The only thing I really have my doubts about logically is the thought of will I actually be able to access my gun in an emergency. And no matter how quickly I can open a lock box, if it's not near me when I need it, it does me no good. And short of stashing a lockbox with a loaded gun in every room (or two or 3 in larger rooms) the question won't be "how quick I can get it open?", it will be "how quick can I get to it?" Home invasions happen without warning, and short of carrying a gun on me in my house (which I simply can't imagine), it likely won't be readily available if and when I need it.

 

Another issue I struggle with that has been brought up in this thread is magazine capacity (not by you in this thread). On one hand it's often argued that limiting magazine size doesn't matter, because they are so easy to change in modern weapons. On the other hand it's also argued that changing magazines while at the range or in a situation, wastes time and is a hinderance. Which is it??

Reloading magazines is a pain, changing them is no big deal. But if I take 5 loaded magazines with me and they hold 10 rounds that's 50 shots then I'm reloading. If I take high capacity 20,25 or 30 round magazines that's up to 150 shots from 5 mags without reloading them and just swapping magazines in the gun, which can be done in 1-2 seconds.

 

They make a lock box with biometrics that will open by placing your hand on it. Most home invasions happen at night, so if you had one in a night stand or close to your bed it would probably cover 90% of the situations that you would incur. There also picture frames that I have seen that a gun can be hid in and just hung on the wall next to your front door if you wanted.

 

I keep a loaded gun within reach when I am in bed (just thought about it I have two within reach, one makes big holes (.40) one makes really big holes(.45))...but if something happens I'll just yell across the hall to my son...he is within 5 feet or less of a crap load of firepower at anytime...I'd just be backing him up :lol2: