Here is the thing that is troubling to me with Dalton. He isn't one that can improvise in any way. If his primary receiveer is covered Dalton usually does 1 of 2 things, 1. throws it to him anyway or 2 panics and takes a sack. He isn't one that I will ever feel comfortable with to come from behind because he just doesn't have that make up. I don't think Gruden or Marvin have that trust in him either. If you notice when the Bengals have the lead late in games they never trust him it seems to throw the ball to try and extend the lead because they are afraid he will turn it over so they usually run the ball hopiing to get first downs on the ground.

 

If Dalton has to throw down field over 10 yards you have to hold your nbreath because usually he makkes the throw without looking at the defense, he just chucks it. Maybe that is his biggest problemm, he doesn't know how to read defenses pre-snap.

 

I am not sure I understand what improvising means here. He made the only throw he could to Gio on the TD while under pressure with underhanded throw. I am not sure any of us know his reads without understanding the total concept. He threw three outstanding passes more than 10 yards; the TD's to Green and Jones and the 4th and 15 to Satz. Now Green and Satz made great catches, but the ball was on the money. Most QB's if they put it on the money get great catches from receivers. I thought the first drive in OT was excellent and he threw the ball well. They got great field position to where they just had to get 5-7 yards to kick the FG after a great punt return, every team is running there. I really only saw one bad throw all day, the interception. I even liked the fire he and Gruden showed after that. Looked like Simms/Parcells; Favre/Holmgren, Boomer/Wyche. Dalton was not the problem at all yesterday. They will win a lot of games with that type of play. In six games he has only one real stinker and that was the Browns.

I am not sure I understand what improvising means here. He made the only throw he could to Gio on the TD while under pressure with underhanded throw. I am not sure any of us know his reads without understanding the total concept. He threw three outstanding passes more than 10 yards; the TD's to Green and Jones and the 4th and 15 to Satz. Now Green and Satz made great catches, but the ball was on the money. Most QB's if they put it on the money get great catches from receivers. I thought the first drive in OT was excellent and he threw the ball well. They got great field position to where they just had to get 5-7 yards to kick the FG after a great punt return, every team is running there. I really only saw one bad throw all day, the interception. I even liked the fire he and Gruden showed after that. Looked like Simms/Parcells; Favre/Holmgren, Boomer/Wyche. Dalton was not the problem at all yesterday. They will win a lot of games with that type of play. In six games he has only one real stinker and that was the Browns.

That's just it, he is safe...he throws to his primary receiver wether he is covered or not 99.9% of the time. That is Dalton, he is safe which means he isn't one that will be known for come from behind wins because it just isn't in his makeup.

 

 

You say he only made 1 bad throw and that was the int. If you watrched the game you will also see aat the beginning of the game he made 3 throws right into the defenders that were dropped or knockeed down, people seem to forget about those throws. Dalton tends to throw into covereage a little too many times and that is because he doesn't look off his receiver a lot.

 

Being safe isnt a bad thing if you are n a team that has great running game and can go up several scoores on a team, but being safe (majority of his throws short, safe throws) isn't going to get a lot of come from behind wins.

I agree with most of the comments both HB and UMMF are making here. I see Gruden and Dalton being alike - neither of them are good at making adjustments and digging deeper on the intellectual side. Dalton seems to never throw a pass to option 3 on a play. Like HB said, he wants to force the play to option one and then seems to panic a little if that gets taken away. Gruden comes up with good game plans and finds plays that work against a defense, but when the defense takes those plays away, he doesn't seem to have the next step/adjustment to respond. If I am the Bengals, I bleed a back out on every passing play, especially with Bernard. The Bengals have been doing more of that already. I would make defenses committ a LB to covering the back out of the backfield and then it is up to Dalton to find the tight end in the middle or dump it to the back, whichever the best option is.

I really wish Gruden could do what Zimmer has been able to do this year, and that is adjust. Zimmer hhas made great adjustments in several games this year, you are right about Gruden though, he has hhis plays and once the defense shuts them down he goes back to vanilla playcalling.

The bolded doesn't make sense to me. You keep saying it's because they don't trust the QB, but when they have the playbook open, and allow Dalton to make some plays, that's when they build the lead. Also, yesterday Dalton was 4-4 for 55 yards in OT, and 8-13 for 76 yards in the 4th quarter and OT. He wasn't bad, he made plays. The only poor play he made yesterday was the INT.

It makes sense. When they open the playbook it is more times than not at the beginning of games whhen the game isn't on the line. As the game goes on it's as if the collective buttholes on the bengalls sidelines pucker up and they go more and more to the conservative side of things because unnlike at the beginning of games where you can afford to make a mistake becausee you have enough time to come back from them, the later in games they are too afraid to make a mistake and tthe playcalling goes very vanilla.

That's just it, he is safe...he throws to his primary receiver wether he is covered or not 99.9% of the time. That is Dalton, he is safe which means he isn't one that will be known for come from behind wins because it just isn't in his makeup.

 

 

You say he only made 1 bad throw and that was the int. If you watrched the game you will also see aat the beginning of the game he made 3 throws right into the defenders that were dropped or knockeed down, people seem to forget about those throws. Dalton tends to throw into covereage a little too many times and that is because he doesn't look off his receiver a lot.

 

Being safe isnt a bad thing if you are n a team that has great running game and can go up several scoores on a team, but being safe (majority of his throws short, safe throws) isn't going to get a lot of come from behind wins.

 

Every football every week has balls that defenders drop and/or knock down when the QBs try to fit them in tight windows. That includes the best QBs in the league. Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, they all had those same things happen yesterday. The way you talk, you make it seem like a QB should never throw an incomplete pass.

In his defense, Dalton made about a half dozen plays that won the game yesterday. He had a couple of scramble runs for first down on third down that extended drives. The Green TD pass was perfectly thrown...yes, Green made a great catch but the ball was right where it needed to be. The pitch pass to Bernard was a very good play by Dalton. The TD pass to Jones is one where Jones was not the first option, Dalton scrambled and threw a very nice pass on the move for the TD. The 4th down pass to Sanzenbacher. Dalton had his best game of the year yesterday. If the Bengals would have trusted him more with the lead in the 4th quarter, that game probably doesn't go to OT.

Unfortunately, I was on the road during the entire game, so had to settle to listening to it on the radio. It seemed like Hoard kept hitting on the YAC late in the game...which is usually a good thing. But, to me, it seemed like he was trying to point out a "flaw" in Dalton's statistics. Saying that he threw for, something like 280 yards at one point, but 210 of it came on YAC. It really seemed to me that he was trying to diminish Dalton's accomplishments when he kept referencing that.

My whole thing is, if you watched that game yesterday, and came away thinking, "Andy Dalton played poorly", you'll never be satisfied and you might as well quit watching the Bengals. They don't have a Brees, Rodgers, Manning, or Brady and they never will. Those are 4 all-time great QBs. If those are the guys we're wanting Dalton to be, he'll never measure up, but neither will any replacement they ever bring in.

My whole thing is, if you watched that game yesterday, and came away thinking, "Andy Dalton played poorly", you'll never be satisfied and you might as well quit watching the Bengals. They don't have a Brees, Rodgers, Manning, or Brady and they never will. Those are 4 all-time great QBs. If those are the guys we're wanting Dalton to be, he'll never measure up, but neither will any replacement they ever bring in.

I don't think I ever said he played poorly yesterday. what I did say is he played safe. Big difference.

 

He didn't play taking risks to try and win the game in regulation or ice the game when we had a lead. He played safe.

I don't think I ever said he played poorly yesterday. what I did say is he played safe. Big difference.

 

He didn't play taking risks to try and win the game in regulation or ice the game when we had a lead. He played safe.

 

And that's on one man....Jay Gruden. Dalton doesn't call the plays.

Unfortunately, I was on the road during the entire game, so had to settle to listening to it on the radio. It seemed like Hoard kept hitting on the YAC late in the game...which is usually a good thing. But, to me, it seemed like he was trying to point out a "flaw" in Dalton's statistics. Saying that he threw for, something like 280 yards at one point, but 210 of it came on YAC. It really seemed to me that he was trying to diminish Dalton's accomplishments when he kept referencing that.

That is exactly right. Dalton only had a few completions downfield and they were basically the TD's which is good. But the majority of his throws were 5 yard passes or dump passes etc. where the receiiver got a ton of yards after the catch.

My whole thing is, if you watched that game yesterday, and came away thinking, "Andy Dalton played poorly", you'll never be satisfied and you might as well quit watching the Bengals. They don't have a Brees, Rodgers, Manning, or Brady and they never will. Those are 4 all-time great QBs. If those are the guys we're wanting Dalton to be, he'll never measure up, but neither will any replacement they ever bring in.

 

Yeah, I think Dalton is getting into the "Dusty Baker box" with a lot of fans. The first decision or play that goes wrong, they want to make it an indictment of their entire career and ability or say, "See, I told you so." And they use that play/decision to completely negate 10 good things that happened before that.

And that's on one man....Jay Gruden. Dalton doesn't call the plays.

Some of it is on Gruden....when he does call pass plays you can't tell me that all the receivers run 5 yard routes. Dalton only seems to look at his primary receiver which is usually a short route.

 

also why do you think Gruden calls those plays at end of games etc.?

Some of it is on Gruden....when he does call pass plays you can't tell me that all the receivers run 5 yard routes. Dalton only seems to look at his primary receiver which is usually a short route.

 

also why do you think Gruden calls those plays at end of games etc.?

 

I already told you why....He's completely overwhelmed at the NFL level.

That is exactly right. Dalton only had a few completions downfield and they were basically the TD's which is good. But the majority of his throws were 5 yard passes or dump passes etc. where the receiiver got a ton of yards after the catch.

 

So you'd rather he throw it to a receiver another 10 yards down the field, that has no running room? Now we're complaining about his completions. :lol2: This is funny.