True. I'm just trying to figure out why the fans are asked to go crazy for the team and lay it all out there, when the players won't do that. # last 6 games...

 

I agree 100% with the bolded part above.

Crash, you may have to define 'good fans' a little better though. Have you ever been to a Dodgers game, they drew 3.7m yet

it has the energy of a bad cocktail party. The Yankees drew 3.2m, but there's a good thing they check for guns when you enter . I sat next to a 70-ish women who would make Andrew Dice Clay blush. The lowly Pirates barely drew a crowd for 15 years. I sat in games at Three Rivers with crowds that had to be under 5000,yet now they're considered 'good fans'.

If your barometer is what other fans say, then I'd encourage you to get around more.

Not disagreeing about the effort the last 6 games. I will say, Ludwick always seems to play hard.

 

I thought he dogged a couple of fly balls Tuesday night. Especially the one that hit at the base of the fence. A good deal of players catch that ball. Plus going 0 for the weekend didn't endear him with the fans.

I agree 100% with the bolded part above.

Crash, you may have to define 'good fans' a little better though. Have you ever been to a Dodgers game, they drew 3.7m yet

it has the energy of a bad cocktail party. The Yankees drew 3.2m, but there's a good thing they check for guns when you enter . I sat next to a 70-ish women who would make Andrew Dice Clay blush. The lowly Pirates barely drew a crowd for 15 years. I sat in games at Three Rivers with crowds that had to be under 5000,yet now they're considered 'good fans'.

If your barometer is what other fans say, then I'd encourage you to get around more.

 

Hey, I wasn't the only one to say it. If you want me to define what I think are good fans it won't be a popular opinion. Take this board, for example. We have a lot of people that invest a ton of time and effort into being a Reds/Bengals fan. However, what do they spend the majority of their time doing? Bashing those in charge or players on the team. And if you went to a Reds game this year you heard the same thing in the stands. I heard people bashing Dusty when Bailey gave up his second run of the game in the 5th inning and the Reds were down 2-0. I'm talking an entire section. They were ticked he kept him in there that long. Not one of those people mentioned anything about the fat goose egg on the board. They used the scapegoat and aren't fans enough to understand what the real problem was.

 

That was just one example from the Reds. Search the numerous Reds/Bengals threads and tell me you don't see a pattern. There's very little positive to say about organizations that are in remarkably better shape than they were even 8 years ago. You would think everyone would remember those days.

 

Again, right or wrong, that's just my opinion.

I thought he dogged a couple of fly balls Tuesday night. Especially the one that hit at the base of the fence. A good deal of players catch that ball. Plus going 0 for the weekend didn't endear him with the fans.

 

I don't think that was effort. I think it's ability. I agree about the fly ball. He went hard after the two hit 400+ but didn't go hard after the one he may have been able to catch...IMO.

Considering Cueto went down last year and Latos wasn't available this year, it wasn't a problem. Not to mention that Cueto missed nearly half his starts, if not more. If you fix the offense there is not WC game because you are division champs.

 

Terribly unlucky no doubt. Doesn't change the fact that Chapman should have been given the chance to start the full season that when they stretched him out all spring and he was their best starter in those spring games even though I agree that spring starts mean nothing. Closers are a dime a dozen always have be always will be dominant starters are not. He easily could have failed as a starter and then failed to go back to being a dominant closer but that was a chance that had to be taken. The more I think about Walt Jocketyy hasn't been good here at all.

Hey, I wasn't the only one to say it. If you want me to define what I think are good fans it won't be a popular opinion. Take this board, for example. We have a lot of people that invest a ton of time and effort into being a Reds/Bengals fan. However, what do they spend the majority of their time doing? Bashing those in charge or players on the team. And if you went to a Reds game this year you heard the same thing in the stands. I heard people bashing Dusty when Bailey gave up his second run of the game in the 5th inning and the Reds were down 2-0. I'm talking an entire section. They were ticked he kept him in there that long. Not one of those people mentioned anything about the fat goose egg on the board. They used the scapegoat and aren't fans enough to understand what the real problem was.

 

That was just one example from the Reds. Search the numerous Reds/Bengals threads and tell me you don't see a pattern. There's very little positive to say about organizations that are in remarkably better shape than they were even 8 years ago. You would think everyone would remember those days.

 

Again, right or wrong, that's just my opinion.

 

You are right there is no doubt it's better now than it was but why not strive to be always better? Just because they aren't basement dwellers that means fans can't point out two terrible coaches/managers? That makes zero sense to me. Just b/c we were trained to be awful we should accept above average? Hello, those two owners are competing for our money every single day every single way. I didn't pay for Reds playoff tickets b/c I think it was a ripoff to make me pay for 4 possible WC and Divisional round home games when there was no possible way to play 4 home games. They also make you pay fees for every game not played. Am I not allowed to email my season ticket account rep my complaints as a 10 year paying customer b/c at least they made the playoffs kind of?

I've been to 30+ straight Opening Days. Name another place that celebrates it like a holiday. I go to about 10 Reds games per year. I know there are negative Reds fans; but there are some for every team, and a vast majority of Reds fans are not. The Packers and St. Louis Cardinals have the best fans in sports, IMO, they are the benchmark for

'good fans'. I've been to games at Lambeau and Busch, I'm in both areas quite often. Trust me, I hear a lot of Home fans complaining. Do you consider UK basketball fans as good or bad? If your gauge is attendance, passion, how they travel, support, 'love' for the team; they're awesome. Yet I don't think there's a fan base that complains more. My point, Cincy fans are not the best, but I think they're pretty good. I also get tired of the same complaints by the same people on this board.

You are right there is no doubt it's better now than it was but why not strive to be always better? Just because they aren't basement dwellers that means fans can't point out two terrible coaches/managers? That makes zero sense to me. Just b/c we were trained to be awful we should accept above average? Hello, those two owners are competing for our money every single day every single way. I didn't pay for Reds playoff tickets b/c I think it was a ripoff to make me pay for 4 possible WC and Divisional round home games when there was no possible way to play 4 home games. They also make you pay fees for every game not played. Am I not allowed to email my season ticket account rep my complaints as a 10 year paying customer b/c at least they made the playoffs kind of?

 

Talk about taking things out of context. Yikes. Not nearly what I meant or said.

 

Easy killer.

Terribly unlucky no doubt. Doesn't change the fact that Chapman should have been given the chance to start the full season that when they stretched him out all spring and he was their best starter in those spring games even though I agree that spring starts mean nothing. Closers are a dime a dozen always have be always will be dominant starters are not. He easily could have failed as a starter and then failed to go back to being a dominant closer but that was a chance that had to be taken. The more I think about Walt Jocketyy hasn't been good here at all.

 

Hard to go back in the bullpen with an injury. As we've discussed a ton, he was tired after half a year as the closer. What is 150+ innings going to do? Dude threw a ton of pitches in Cuba.

I've been to 30+ straight Opening Days. Name another place that celebrates it like a holiday. I go to about 10 Reds games per year. I know there are negative Reds fans; but there are some for every team, and a vast majority of Reds fans are not. The Packers and St. Louis Cardinals have the best fans in sports, IMO, they are the benchmark for

'good fans'. I've been to games at Lambeau and Busch, I'm in both areas quite often. Trust me, I hear a lot of Home fans complaining. Do you consider UK basketball fans as good or bad? If your gauge is attendance, passion, how they travel, support, 'love' for the team; they're awesome. Yet I don't think there's a fan base that complains more. My point, Cincy fans are not the best, but I think they're pretty good. I also get tired of the same complaints by the same people on this board.

 

30+ opening days? So you are one of "those people"? Just kidding. I loathe the fan that ONLY attends Opening Day because of the pageantry. I refused to go with a buddy one year because it was cold and he was going to be in the bar for all but inning's 3-6. We're not longer friends...

 

Obviously, a lot of it has to do with the fact that I don't hear a lot of other fan bases because I don't care about their teams. It's just my opinion of Reds fans because that's what I hear.

Hey, I wasn't the only one to say it. If you want me to define what I think are good fans it won't be a popular opinion. Take this board, for example. We have a lot of people that invest a ton of time and effort into being a Reds/Bengals fan. However, what do they spend the majority of their time doing? Bashing those in charge or players on the team. And if you went to a Reds game this year you heard the same thing in the stands. I heard people bashing Dusty when Bailey gave up his second run of the game in the 5th inning and the Reds were down 2-0. I'm talking an entire section. They were ticked he kept him in there that long. Not one of those people mentioned anything about the fat goose egg on the board. They used the scapegoat and aren't fans enough to understand what the real problem was.

 

That was just one example from the Reds. Search the numerous Reds/Bengals threads and tell me you don't see a pattern. There's very little positive to say about organizations that are in remarkably better shape than they were even 8 years ago. You would think everyone would remember those days.

 

Again, right or wrong, that's just my opinion.

 

No right or wrong. Just opinions. Yes the Reds are better than 8 years ago. Are they better than they were 2 or 3 years ago? When do we quit referencing the bleak years as how we benchmark the current teams?

I am starting to think that the trend of all of this is that it is just extremely hard to be a Cincinnati fan (hard to be fans of other teams, i know. Cincinnati is just what i know). And it shows by how fickle we are with our teams. We get teased by moments of shear brilliance by our teams like winning the division last year and taking the 1st two against San Fran and then we take a major crap. Bengals beat the Packers 1 weekend and then turn around and lose to the Browns. (Just 2 recent examples) We get our hopes up and for moments our fans are amazing, then we get our hopes dashed and all of a sudden we want to clean house with our teams. Sometimes it feels as if our teams are the best players for the other team when we are playing.

 

I guess we just suck as fans and our teams suck for making us lose our hair.

I am starting to think that the trend of all of this is that it is just extremely hard to be a Cincinnati fan (hard to be fans of other teams, i know. Cincinnati is just what i know). And it shows by how fickle we are with our teams. We get teased by moments of shear brilliance by our teams like winning the division last year and taking the 1st two against San Fran and then we take a major crap. Bengals beat the Packers 1 weekend and then turn around and lose to the Browns. (Just 2 recent examples) We get our hopes up and for moments our fans are amazing, then we get our hopes dashed and all of a sudden we want to clean house with our teams. Sometimes it feels as if our teams are the best players for the other team when we are playing.

 

I guess we just suck as fans and our teams suck for making us lose our hair.

 

Especially hard for those that watched our beloved teams win 3 World Series, and go to two Super Bowls.

One thing I'll say is that if Dusty is back, and all indications are that he will be, and they don't make drastic changes in the offseason, I'll have to think long and hard about spending my money on season tickets again, or just tickets in general.

 

If they aren't committed to trying to improve and win, why should we, as fans, continue to spend our money to support them?

No right or wrong. Just opinions. Yes the Reds are better than 8 years ago. Are they better than they were 2 or 3 years ago? When do we quit referencing the bleak years as how we benchmark the current teams?

 

It's not using them as a benchmark as much as it is realistic expectations of a small market team. They can't go out and load up every year and overspend, like the Dodgers, Sawx and Yanks.

 

If they continue to be competitive and compete for divisional titles and go to the playoffs in today's current professional sports climate I think we should recognize that they are doing some things right, instead of harping on all the things they are doing wrong...or so we think.