Maybe I misread this:

 

 

As to the bolded in your immediate past reply, at this point, legally it's not murder.

 

 

How is abortion not murder. If a drunk driver kills an unborn baby in the womb, they are charged with murder. What is the difference in them and a Dr.

Stunned. C'mon MR. You can do better than that. Reread your words.

 

I guess crude and rude words for a crude and rude topic. If I offended anyone, sorry. But it ticks me off that a few think most blame goes to the guy. Guys are pigs, dogs, liars, scum, cheaters, and think most of the time about sex. We have a disease of the brainS.

Maybe I misread this:

 

 

As to the bolded in your immediate past reply, at this point, legally it's not murder.

 

As to the rest of your reply, where are all the threads calling for and discussing ways to prevent unintended pregnancies? Where are the threads discussing deadbeat parents, abused children, and lack of realistic domestic adoption reform? Where are the threads devoted to ways we can help unwed mothers? Where are the threads discussing ways to mentor young men and women and help keep them on track? Where are those threads? Why only threads calling for the overturn of R v W, and the discussion of the morality of abortion? Are votes, billboards and angry speech all we're capable of in this country? We all can sit and point to what's wrong and immoral. Where is the discussion of (and then the down and dirty involvement in), real, tactical solutions to solving the issue?

 

I honestly don't think I am understanding the point you're trying to make with the bolded. Regardless, my fight for the unborn is not contingent on whether or not abortion is legal. I will work against abortions whether they take place in hospital beds or in hotel bathrooms. Obviously I do not want abortion to be legal, but in the grand scheme, I am not concerned with whether or not the government condones the murder of an unborn child. I am concerned with preventing that child's murder.

 

As to the rest of your reply, your implication is correct: I have not started any threads about any of those things, and they are most certainly issues in desperate need of addressing in the US and the world at large. However, if you are going to take issue with the lack of those threads in this forum, then why are you not starting them yourself? If "we must be the change we wish to see in the world" (to borrow a line from Ghandi), then why are you only pointing out that, you, I, and everyone else is lacking a discussion of those issues, instead of creating the discussion on here?

 

As for my contribution to tactical solutions, my perspective is this: you cannot solve someone's issues if they are dead. They must have a chance to live in the first place if you wish to help them with their problems. That is why my ministry ("down and dirty involvement") is in curbside counseling at abortion clinics. Trust me - it's plenty "down and dirty". I also have very direct involvement at Care Net, and at the New Hope Center - which are centers created specifically to offer counseling and care to mothers and couples dealing with unplanned pregnancies. I understand that your ministry deals with the issues of sexual and reproductive responsibility, and responsible parenting, and I thank you sincerely for that. However, my ministry is to those whom, for whatever reason, have not received the message of your ministry.

I honestly don't think I am understanding the point you're trying to make with the bolded. Regardless, my fight for the unborn is not contingent on whether or not abortion is legal. I will work against abortions whether they take place in hospital beds or in hotel bathrooms. Obviously I do not want abortion to be legal, but in the grand scheme, I am not concerned with whether or not the government condones the murder of an unborn child. I am concerned with preventing that child's murder.

 

As to the rest of your reply, your implication is correct: I have not started any threads about any of those things, and they are most certainly issues in desperate need of addressing in the US and the world at large. However, if you are going to take issue with the lack of those threads in this forum, then why are you not starting them yourself? If "we must be the change we wish to see in the world" (to borrow a line from Ghandi), then why are you only pointing out that, you, I, and everyone else is lacking a discussion of those issues, instead of creating the discussion on here?

 

As for my contribution to tactical solutions, my perspective is this: you cannot solve someone's issues if they are dead. They must have a chance to live in the first place if you wish to help them with their problems. That is why my ministry ("down and dirty involvement") is in curbside counseling at abortion clinics. Trust me - it's plenty "down and dirty". I also have very direct involvement at Care Net, and at the New Hope Center - which are centers created specifically to offer counseling and care to mothers and couples dealing with unplanned pregnancies. I understand that your ministry deals with the issues of sexual and reproductive responsibility, and responsible parenting, and I thank you sincerely for that. However, my ministry is to those whom, for whatever reason, have not received the message of your ministry.

 

I really applaud the work you are doing CWB! :thumb:

 

I honestly don't think I am understanding the point you're trying to make with the bolded. Regardless, my fight for the unborn is not contingent on whether or not abortion is legal. I will work against abortions whether they take place in hospital beds or in hotel bathrooms. Obviously I do not want abortion to be legal, but in the grand scheme, I am not concerned with whether or not the government condones the murder of an unborn child. I am concerned with preventing that child's murder.

 

As to the rest of your reply, your implication is correct: I have not started any threads about any of those things, and they are most certainly issues in desperate need of addressing in the US and the world at large. However, if you are going to take issue with the lack of those threads in this forum, then why are you not starting them yourself? If "we must be the change we wish to see in the world" (to borrow a line from Ghandi), then why are you only pointing out that, you, I, and everyone else is lacking a discussion of those issues, instead of creating the discussion on here?

 

As for my contribution to tactical solutions, my perspective is this: you cannot solve someone's issues if they are dead. They must have a chance to live in the first place if you wish to help them with their problems. That is why my ministry ("down and dirty involvement") is in curbside counseling at abortion clinics. Trust me - it's plenty "down and dirty". I also have very direct involvement at Care Net, and at the New Hope Center - which are centers created specifically to offer counseling and care to mothers and couples dealing with unplanned pregnancies. I understand that your ministry deals with the issues of sexual and reproductive responsibility, and responsible parenting, and I thank you sincerely for that. However, my ministry is to those whom, for whatever reason, have not received the message of your ministry.

 

I don't start them because I have been saying the same things in abortion threads for years and never get any responses. So, as I outlined a while back in another thread, I choose to walk the walk and spend a great deal of time working with unwed and new mothers in crisis.

I don't start them because I have been saying the same things in abortion threads for years and never get any responses. So, as I outlined a while back in another thread, I choose to walk the walk and spend a great deal of time working with unwed and new mothers in crisis.

 

Well I appreciate that you are doing that...honestly.

 

Still, my walking the walk will continue to be spending a great deal of time working to prevent pregnant mothers from killing their unborn children. And I will continue to fight for abortion to be outlawed, because until it is outlawed, there is literally NO hope of ending abortion. Saying that something is going to continue even if you outlaw it does not mean to give up on fighting it, and for me, part of that fight will include bringing the wrongs of abortion into discussion.

Well I appreciate that you are doing that...honestly.

 

Still, my walking the walk will continue to be spending a great deal of time working to prevent pregnant mothers from killing their unborn children. And I will continue to fight for abortion to be outlawed, because until it is outlawed, there is literally NO hope of ending abortion. Saying that something is going to continue even if you outlaw it does not mean to give up on fighting it, and for me, part of that fight will include bringing the wrongs of abortion into discussion.

 

I absolutely am not trying to say one should quit fighting to overturn RvW. What I am saying is that it's not enough to just fight to make abortion illegal. And it makes me angry that so many people feel all they have to do is cast their vote for the right candidate and their duty is done. I work with these girls because I once was an unwed pregnant teen, scared to death of everything about it. I was fortunate enough to meet an angel of a woman who stood by me through making my decision to keep my baby, stood with me when I married the father (a bigger mistake than getting pregnant), and stood by me and took me in when my husband decided his girlfriend was a better life than his wife and 2 kids. She has stood by me through thick and thin, and I had a great example of what it takes to make the kinds of impact in the life of a woman in crisis that will result in a birth, not an abortion. But let me tell you, there are fewer and fewer people willing to be involved on a day in and day out basis. I don't work with any formal organization. There is just a group of us who have loosely organized to do what we can to help. My point isn't that abortion should be legal. My efforts in these threads is to call attention to the fact that making abortion illegal isn't the "solution". Believe it or not, we're on the same page. I just choose to focus the largest amount of energy "on the ground" so to speak. There's more than enough people fighting for legislation, but not nearly enough becoming a part of these women's everyday lives.

I think the thread has gone away from Mtn Ref's original point about the MSM ignoring the story. It's obvious they want no part of it and I think most people understand it is because they overwhelmingly lean to the left. It is what it is.

As to the bolded in your immediate past reply, at this point, legally it's not murder.

 

 

How is abortion not murder. If a drunk driver kills an unborn baby in the womb, they are charged with murder. What is the difference in them and a Dr.

 

He does have a good point, how is an unborn child killed in the womb by a drunk driver or by a gunshot murder and abortion isn't?

He does have a good point, how is an unborn child killed in the womb by a drunk driver or by a gunshot murder and abortion isn't?

 

 

That is a different topic, and a worthy debate. But, as it stands, even those who are against abortion can agree that in the eyes of the law, a woman who chooses an abortion is not guilty of murder. The "right" or "wrong" of that is a different debate. If abortion is made illegal, THEN a woman would be (potentially) guilty of murder.

He does have a good point, how is an unborn child killed in the womb by a drunk driver or by a gunshot murder and abortion isn't?

 

Because laws have been passed by various state legislatures to define the parameters of "murder." 35 or so states have fetal homicide laws. Most of them were enacted within the last 10-12 years.

 

Here's Kentucky's:

 

Kentucky Revised Statutes

Because laws have been passed by various state legislatures to define the parameters of "murder." 35 or so states have fetal homicide laws. Most of them were enacted within the last 10-12 years.

 

Here's Kentucky's:

 

Kentucky Revised Statutes

Legally there is a difference, I agree. But what is the real difference?

Is there a time limit on post birth abortions?

Legally there is a difference, I agree. But what is the real difference?

 

A semantic one -- as are many such distinctions in the law -- but one based people's real choices and the real consequences of regulating human reproduction. If Roe were to be overturned, then they could be made legally equivalent simply by removing the second and third lines from the definitional section of the Kentucky fetal homicide law.

 

But in the case of an overturn, I think you'd see an overwhelming majority of states (among those actually passing a prohibition) ban the procedures themselves but without codifying the crime as murder.

Is there a time limit on post birth abortions?

 

I'd have to refresh myself on the laws, but I believe most, if not all states have requirements for doctors to provide care for infants born live following botched abortions. Otherwise, any circumstance dubbed a "post birth abortion" would seem to be murder just as implicated in the case against Dr. Gosnell.