Random thoughts:

 

I have so many gay friends. I could count them, but really...the number isn't important. I have friends that are commited couples, one couple has been together over 30 years and just retired together. I have friends who've adopted children, the most recent an adorable little guy from Guatamala. They take him back to see his birth mother and family every year, because they promised that the boys family would always be a part of his life. Some of my gay friends are desperately unhappy because of their family's rejection. I have some whose family felt their relationship with their son/daughter/brother/sister/cousin, etc. was more important than his/her sexuality. I have lost gay friends to suicide. I have seen gay friends heckled, harassed, and once beaten to a pulp because they didn't hide their sexuality. I have seen many of these same individuals carry on. Many belong to churches. Most are some of the most tireless community volunteers I've ever known.

 

Just random thoughts. And, I have known some that are just like many of my straight friends...selfish, obnoxious, promiscuous and self-serving. Gay people are just people. Like you, like me, like strangers we know nothing about.

 

Just as their "sin" may be judged when they meet God, so will our sins. And frankly, most of my gay friends live much more admirable lives than I...I actually feel they have a better chance at heaven than I do.

Random thoughts:

 

I have so many gay friends. I could count them, but really...the number isn't important. I have friends that are commited couples, one couple has been together over 30 years and just retired together. I have friends who've adopted children, the most recent an adorable little guy from Guatamala. They take him back to see his birth mother and family every year, because they promised that the boys family would always be a part of his life. Some of my gay friends are desperately unhappy because of their family's rejection. I have some whose family felt their relationship with their son/daughter/brother/sister/cousin, etc. was more important than his/her sexuality. I have lost gay friends to suicide. I have seen gay friends heckled, harassed, and once beaten to a pulp because they didn't hide their sexuality. I have seen many of these same individuals carry on. Many belong to churches. Most are some of the most tireless community volunteers I've ever known.

 

Just random thoughts. And, I have known some that are just like many of my straight friends...selfish, obnoxious, promiscuous and self-serving. Gay people are just people. Like you, like me, like strangers we know nothing about.

 

Just as their "sin" may be judged when they meet God, so will our sins. And frankly, most of my gay friends live much more admirable lives than I...I actually feel they have a better chance at heaven than I do.

 

I hope I have never made anyone ponder suicide or made them feel harassed. I would not support any physical violence. I believe homosexuality is wrong. But I do not hate anyone.

Khalid, I didn't direct that at you. Your thread has had me thinking for days, and I just wanted to put those thoughts out there. Today happens to be a bittersweet day. It's the anniversary of a dear friend's suicide, and the anniversary of day the couple I mentioned who adopted from Guatemala first met the mother of their unborn son.

 

Sent from my DROID X2 using Forum Runner

Romans 2 NIV

 

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

You may be surprised to know that I indeed have studied and read countless pieces on this subject and have even conducted field research myself. I am around homosexuality on a regular basis. I have family members, friends, and coworkers that choose to lead that lifestyle. We've dicussed these issues before and none of them seem nearly as emotional as you do when talking about it. Some of them would agree with you and some would not. But lets try to put anger aside and simply look at a couple of questions.

 

Social Question

 

You or several others on this topic claim that they know of no one who is against same-sex marriage and that the landscape of our country is changing, however whenever same-sex marriage is placed on a ballot it is more often voted down. How can you explain that an ever-changing world continues to follow this pattern?

 

Biological Question

 

Every creature in history that is naturally sexually compatable with a mate is able to procreate with that mate. If homosexuality is natural than how come it cannot result in procreation?

 

Religious Question

 

I don't know if you mentioned religion in any of your responses but here is a pretty simple question. One cannot argue that the Bible speaks against homosexuality, it blatantly does and it is not debatable. One can however argue if the Bible is accurate. Do you agree with what I just said?

 

Athletic Question

 

If Marquette comes back to win this game, then I have a pretty good bracket. How is yours?

 

Without going into detail; this is where I believe you start down the wrong path.

A couple of questions for the pro-gay marriage folks on here: Who did you need most growing up, your mother or your father? Would you have been better off with two dads or two moms?

A couple of questions for the pro-gay marriage folks on here: Who did you need most growing up' date=' your mother or your father? Would you have been better off with two dads or two moms?[/quote']

 

I had a horrendous relationship with my mother, and a wonderful one with my father. Ideally, it's not about the gender or number of the parents. It's about unconditional love, discipline and nurturing. Gender and sexuality didn't determine ones ability to provide any of those.

I had a horrendous relationship with my mother, and a wonderful one with my father. Ideally, it's not about the gender or number of the parents. It's about unconditional love, discipline and nurturing. Gender and sexuality didn't determine ones ability to provide any of those.

I realize a gay couple can love and support a child as much as a straight couple.. So do you feel as long as the child is loved it does not matter if he or she has a male and female influence in their lives...

Without going into detail; this is where I believe you start down the wrong path.

 

Since you do not know who my co-workers are then you really cannot make such a statement. When the two sides are able to have an objective and prolonged discussion on the topic, usually the legitmate causes come out. They are usually related to abuse, single parent households, overbearing mothers or fathers, or other psyscho-social factors

I'm still trying to figure out what a "Gay Kindle" looks like.

 

Soft? Pink?

I hope I have never made anyone ponder suicide or made them feel harassed. I would not support any physical violence. I believe homosexuality is wrong. But I do not hate anyone.

 

Khalid,

 

I was going to try my hardest to bail out of anymore contribution to the thread, but I just wanted to assure you that I personally am not ruffled, and you don't have to worry if I have any lingering ill thoughts or personal depression about the topic.

 

Years ago when I came out to my parents, siblings, and friends, although they were initially shocked, all thankfully came around to showing me their love and understanding, which I've without a doubt appreciated and found to be the very reason that I had a solid foundation for moving forward confidently with my life, unashamed, with dignity, to live life lovingly without unnecessary stresses. That foundation also helped me better brace myself for the at large general publics' perceptions.

 

I've many times observed others who weren't as blessed as I was with understanding family members, and this took a direct hit on their lives which ended up rearing it's ugly head through their maladjusted behavior leading to them carrying around with them a certain amount of sadness, bad choices, and lots of times, alcoholism and drug abuse. Being disowned by the people who raised you and the ones you love is super hard to deal with.

 

Most recently I knew sad sack of a guy who lived alone with his dog, who's parents were ashamed of him and pretty much discounted him from his family. He for years had trouble adjusting to life and at age 46 was found dead in his apartment about 10 days after his old dog had died. No one knows for sure what had happened to him, but many of us suspect that he went into a deep depression after losing his best friend, and perhaps held on just long enough so as to not abandon big ol Nash in his old age. This was a shock to us all as none of us saw that coming, and no matter how supportive any of us tried to be to him, having no family foundation was always something, understandably, very hard for him to endure.

 

Some might assume that by the way I've bared my soul here that I'm angry or am a 'typical' knee-jerk, super leftist, gay activist liberal, but in reality I'm neither a far left or far right type, as I consider myself pretty much a down the middle moderate on most topics. I really don't even like to label myself anything in particular as labeling tends to confine one and leaves little room for open mindedness, or adjustment of view, depending on what new input might effect my thinking.

 

I honestly don't even ponder this topic much in my everyday life, and any associations that I've had in the past who might've had a one track mind of "gay rights, gay rights, gay rights" typically ended up boring the hell out of me to eventually just cause me to drift down stream. I could understand their cause, but felt that a steady diet of that wasn't allowing for much living, and ultimately it made me feel as if they, whether they realized or not, were letting the un-accepting general public dictate their lives. Life shouldn't necessarily be a competition, but I really don't think anyone wins in life by having that struggle for acceptance be their everyday concern.

 

I see blurbs in the news once in awhile regarding stuff like gay marriage, but must admit I'm not really all that up to date on it to talk about it like someone who's solidly in the know. "Proposition This"or "Supreme Court That"... blah blah blah.... none of it truly effects me as I just go on about my life. Sometimes straight folks tend to know more about it than I do, or some gay folks would be disappointed in me for not knowing all the details that they might think that I should.... LOL

 

As someone who knows too well the isolated feelings of once being a scared teenager thinking "why me?" and having no one to talk to for fear of all kinds of negative response, my biggest concern with this topic is most definitely related to hoping that teens in the present, and the future can move forward with more confidence knowing that the world is more accepting than they once were, and that they never EVER feel that suicide is an option to avoid what appears to be perhaps a lifelong struggle. I wouldn't advise a teen to blast his/her private thoughts to his/her whole class or associations, as that could still cause them a ton of stresses and perhaps ugly situations regarding bullying, as we all know that some kids can be harsh and sophomoric, but I just wish that in more modern times they could feel more safer and confident enough to share with their understanding supportive loving parents, what they are going through, so as to not feel so alone. I always felt helpless in helping to change this problem myself, but am happy that strides have been taken in the more recent "It Gets Better" campaign that seems to be picking up steam.

I realize a gay couple can love and support a child as much as a straight couple.. So do you feel as long as the child is loved it does not matter if he or she has a male and female influence in their lives...

 

Just because they might have two male parents or two female parents doesn't mean that they don't necessarily have the influences of the other sex in their life. There was a time in my youth in which I wasn't able to spend much time with my father (parents were divorced, mom lived in KY, dad in CO). I had a terrible relationship with my mother's husband (notice that I didn't call him my step-father). However, my mother's brother took a VERY active role in my life and I am better off for his intentional presence during that time.

 

This is why extended family is so important, not just for gay couples, divorced couples, single parents, etc. My brother and his wife are happily married, but I make myself an intentional part of lives of my nieces and nephews.

This is a COMPLETELY random observation. I went to an all girls, Catholic high school, 75 in our graduating class. I am friends on Facebook with all of them I have been able to find. Today, almost every single one of them are sporting the same sex marriage picture either as their profile pic, or on their page. I found that interesting, given that I thought I was in the minority.

Khalid,

 

I was going to try my hardest to bail out of anymore contribution to the thread, but I just wanted to assure you that I personally am not ruffled, and you don't have to worry if I have any lingering ill thoughts or personal depression about the topic.

 

If I had a striped shirt I wold blow my whistle and say "Foul on B-Ball Fan" When you requested that I not "drag" you in I said "okay." But I knew I didn't hurt your feelings. Sounds like you've experienced worse then anything I would say or do.

 

But I do believe homosexuality is wrong and I know exactly why I believe it and I have sound reasons.

Since you do not know who my co-workers are then you really cannot make such a statement. When the two sides are able to have an objective and prolonged discussion on the topic, usually the legitmate causes come out. They are usually related to abuse, single parent households, overbearing mothers or fathers, or other psyscho-social factors

 

Since I don't know any of your co-workers, you're right in assessing that I would be in no better a position to ascertain if they are "faking" it by being straight and living a gay lifestyle any more than I can ascertain whether you or any other person I run into is "faking" it by being gay, living a straight lifestyle. I can, however, speak to the personal experiences I have had with my younger brother, who just so happens to be gay. Since he "came out" a little over a year ago, he and I have had multiple, very candid conversations about the confusion and torment he felt growing up. He knew at a very young age that the feelings and attractions he experienced were different than the societal norms. Having been raised in a devoutly Catholic family, he also felt the extreme religious pressure to keep "faking" it and do his best to preserve the image of your typical heterosexual guy. It wasn't until he started doing a little research that he began to normalize his feelings. You see, my brother is actually a twin. And, it turns out that there is a high incidence of homosexuality in males who have a twin sister. The reasoning has something to do with estrogen levels of the mother during gestation. My brother is also the the third of three boys in our family. There has also been some research that suggests that the greater number of biological brothers a male has, the greater chance the male will be homosexual. Again, this has to do with environment factors present in in-utero. Between being a twin and being the last born male, I guess my brother was just destined for gaydom. So, to your point about the various "nurture" factors you listed, I can tell you none of those listed played a role in my brother's development. Furthermore, if you'd like links to any of the studies I referenced, let me know. I'll gladly share them with you.

 

Gay, straight or otherwise, I, and the rest of my family love my brother unconditionally. I imagine should you never find yourself in a situation where someone close to you--not a co-worker, not a distant cousin, or an acquaintance--but someone close enough to you who you truly love unconditionally and whose well-being you care deeply about, your opinions on the "unnaturalness" of homosexuality will never change. However, should you ever discover a sibling or child or close friend is gay, I'm betting you'll see the light then. Because, should that situation ever arise, I promise you it will be so heartbreaking to hear the stories they'll tell you about the torment, and self-disgust, suicidal thoughts they endured until they made peace with themselves that those conversations alone will make it nearly impossible to continue thinking that being gay is is a choice.

Edited March 27, 201313 yr by 20/20Hindsight