I am in your camp LOOGY......I think the Reds blew the series against the World Champions last year. Seriously Cincy could have won it all. Keep Chapman at his DOMINANT spot. We didn't move Votto to left field did we? The guy I am not confident in is Broxton. Last year they tried Marshall as the closer and he was a fail. Sometimes you are what you are. Chapman to me is a closer.

 

Too many unknowns with Chapman as a starter too. No one knows if he can be as dominant starting as he was closing. The Reds had a great formula for pitching last year. They are built to win now. Why mess with things when it worked last year? I would understand them doing this if they finished below 500 but they won 97 games last year! Keep it the same as last year and with the addition of Choo as leadoff this might be the best team in the NL.

Should have done that too, he cant run now, hasnt really been as productive as he was since he got paid........dont matter now, Reds are stuck with him.

 

Votto while he was 100% last year.

 

.348 .471 .617 14 HR 48 RBI

 

Yeah, he wasn't productive after he got paid...

Should have done that too, he cant run now, hasnt really been as productive as he was since he got paid........dont matter now, Reds are stuck with him.

 

You can't actually believe half the stuff you post with regards to the Reds....

No way Chapman lasts the season as a starter. H e struggled late last season with a tired arm and that was just from coming in at times and throwing sometimes only 15-20 pitches to close out some games. Throwing 100-120 pitches in a game will have him on the DL by he all-star break. Leave him where he's at.

Last 6 World Series Champions regular season rotation:

2012 San Francisco Giants Rotation- Cain, Bumgarner, Vogelsong, Lincecum (came out of bullpen in postseason), Zito. Combined season 3.77 ERA

2011 ST. Louis Cardinals- Carpenter, Garcia, Lohse, Westbrook, Jackson. Combined season 3.72 ERA

2010 Giants- Cain, Lincecum, Zito, Sanchez, Bumgarner (pitched 18 games), Wellemeyer (pitched 13). Combined season ERA 3.74

2009 New York Yankees- Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte, Chamberlain, and a cornacopia of 5th relievers. Combined season ERA 4.08

2008 Philadelphia Phillies- Hamels, Moyer, Myers, Kendrick, Blanton (13 games), Eaton (19 games). Combined season ERA 4.47

2007 Boston Red Sox- Matsuzaka, Beckett, Wakefield, Schilling (24 games), Tavarez (23 games), Lester (11 games). Combined season ERA 4.33

 

Last 6 World Series top 5 Bullpen pitchers ERA:

SF- 2.89 Closer- 2.84 (casilla) / 1.79 (Romo)

STL- 3.26 Closer- Motte/Salas/Boggs-2.69

SF- 2.86 Closer- Wilson- 1.81

NYY- 3.30 Closer- Rivera- 1.76

PHI- 2.78 Closer- Lidge- 1.94

BOS- 2.88 Closer- Papelbon- 1.85

 

2012 Cincinnati Reds

 

Starters-Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Arroyo, Leake. Combined season ERA 3.65

Top 5 Bullpen pitchers- 2.65 Closer- Chapman (38 Sv) (1.51) Marshall (9 sv) (2.51)

 

So to answer your question- YES!!!!!! Last year they had the best rotation/bullpen/closer than the last 6 World Series Champions. Bullpen and Offense's win World Series not starting pitching, which helps a lot though.

 

Good stats and info. How much does that really apply to winning in the post season? Those season stats have little meaning in the post season IMO. What is important in the post season is having DOMINATING starting pitching. Some of those back of the rotation starters didn't even start a game in the post season. Do you have the post season stats on the starters of those teams ... post season only?

 

To win a World Series, I think you need 3 dominating starters. Break it down by post season innings. Starters will pitch the most post season innings and you want your best on the field as much as possible. As a closer in the post season, Chapman might pitch 4 innings in a 7 game series? As a starter, he would pitch 3x that amount of innings if he only started 2 games.

 

As to season stats, did anyone see the stat Daugherty had in this morning's Enquirer?

 

2011 Cordero closer - 37 saves, 6 blown saves

2012 Chapman closer - 38 saves, 5 blown saves

 

So I ask again - is everyone good with Cueto, Latos and Bailey as your 3 key starters with Arroyo or Leake as a 4th starter in a post season series?

Good stats and info. How much does that really apply to winning in the post season? Those season stats have little meaning in the post season IMO. What is important in the post season is having DOMINATING starting pitching. Some of those back of the rotation starters didn't even start a game in the post season. Do you have the post season stats on the starters of those teams ... post season only?

 

To win a World Series, I think you need 3 dominating starters. Break it down by post season innings. Starters will pitch the most post season innings and you want your best on the field as much as possible. As a closer in the post season, Chapman might pitch 4 innings in a 7 game series? As a starter, he would pitch 3x that amount of innings if he only started 2 games.

 

As to season stats, did anyone see the stat Daugherty had in this morning's Enquirer?

 

2011 Cordero closer - 37 saves, 6 blown saves

2012 Chapman closer - 38 saves, 5 blown saves

 

So I ask again - is everyone good with Cueto, Latos and Bailey as your 3 key starters with Arroyo or Leake as a 4th starter in a post season series?

 

I am. And I am not trying to be cute. I truly am. Remember Cueto got hurt last year in his playoff start. That hurt quite a bit.

I am. And I am not trying to be cute. I truly am. Remember Cueto got hurt last year in his playoff start. That hurt quite a bit.

 

I think Bailey is really getting there, and at the end of this season he would likely be the choice for post season starter #3 even if Chapman starts all season. I like Chapman over Arroyo or Leake in a post season game.

 

I think closers are over rated and replaceable. Top of the rotation starters are the #1 commodity in baseball. For that reason and the post season impact, I lean towards starting Chapman. I would be very smart in how I used him. Every time there was an opportunity to skip him in the rotation, I would do it. Coming out of spring training, I skip him until I have to have a 5th starter.

 

Here is Daugherty's article in this morning's Enquirer. It is almost spot on to how I view Chapman:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130314/COL03/303140067/Doc-Start-Aroldis-Chapman?nclick_check=1

 

So I ask again - is everyone good with Cueto, Latos and Bailey as your 3 key starters with Arroyo or Leake as a 4th starter in a post season series?

Assuming all are healthy, yes.

You can't actually believe half the stuff you post with regards to the Reds....

The green from the penis is spreading.

A top level closer is imo one of the most important positions in the game for a winning/championship team. As some others have said I say leave him in the closer role out of the pen. Chapman imo could become one of if not the most dominate closer in the game.

VOR, You are right that you need 3 great starters and 1 quality 4th arm. And for time purposes ill compare the last years Giants and the Reds

 

Giants Postseason

 

Cain-5 GS/3.7 ERA/29.3in... 3.86 WS ERA / 2.19 NLCS ERA / 5.06 NLDS ERA

Vogelsong- 4 GS/1.03 ERA/26in... 0 WS ERA / 1.29 NLCS ERA / 1.80 NLDS ERA

Bumgarner- 3 GS/7.68 ERA/13in... 0 WS ERA / 14.73 NLCS ERA / 8.31 NLDS ERA

Zito- 3 GS/2.78 ERA/ 9.3in... 1.59 WS ERA / 0 NLCS ERA / 6.75 NLDS ERA

Lincecum- 1 GS/ 5.4 ERA/ 6.3 in... only started NLCS

 

Reds Postseason (NLDS)

Cueto- hurt after 1st out in game one

Latos- 2 Gms, 1 GS/6.48 ERA/8.3in.

Arroyo- 1 GS/0 ERA/7in.

Bailey- 1 GS/1.29 ERA/7in.

Leake- 1 GS/10.38 ERA/4.1in.

 

If Cueto doesn't get hurt they had the depth to go all the way with their pitching depth. IMO Leake shut it down for the season and wasnt prepared to appear in the postseason. If the ERA's for the Giants in the NLDS doesn't annoy you then I don't know what would.

Contractually speaking, I get the feeling the Reds are gonna get out of Chapman what they can for that duration. Seems like the temperature of the comments of everyone is that he won't be here when his contract expires, like it's automatic that he's gonna be put on a leer to the Yankees the day it expires. Maybe that's just my interpretation.

Contractually speaking, I get the feeling the Reds are gonna get out of Chapman what they can for that duration. Seems like the temperature of the comments of everyone is that he won't be here when his contract expires, like it's automatic that he's gonna be put on a leer to the Yankees the day it expires. Maybe that's just my interpretation.

 

And guess what the Yankees will need after this year? A closer :sssh: along with pretty much a whole new lineup, but still

In Game 5 of the NLDS the Giants scored 6 on Latos in the 5th inning. Bullpen held them scoreless the last 4 innings. I'd be willing to net Latos never does that again in the playoffs, and the bullpen kept them in that game even though they lost

Contractually speaking, I get the feeling the Reds are gonna get out of Chapman what they can for that duration. Seems like the temperature of the comments of everyone is that he won't be here when his contract expires, like it's automatic that he's gonna be put on a leer to the Yankees the day it expires. Maybe that's just my interpretation.

 

I do feel that way, especially if he does great as a starter.