September 10, 201214 yr It's Monday and I'm doing everything I can to procrastinate. The question was brought up in another thread about the best Kicker of all time. So far the discussion is between David Akers and Adam Vinatieri. I will argue for Akers. He has been one of the most consistent kickers throughout his entire career. I will give credit where it's due to Vinateri, but a kicker can only be in those biggest moments because the team put him there. I went ahead and just did some comparative research and I will let you decide, but in my opinion I'd take Akers. Can't fault the guy because Vinatieri played on better teams with stronger offenses/defenses that put him in games that mattered more: Akers Vinatieri Career 82.4% 82.7% Long 63 57 Over 50+ 55% 48% 40-49 70% 72% 30-39 89% 84% 20-29 99.1% 96.6% 1-19 100% 100% XP 98.9% 98.3% * I tried to space this better but when submitted it crunches it together. Hope the point still gets across. Only reason Vinatieri has a better career percentage is because he took 34 more attempts from 20-29 and 17 more attempts from 30-39. Akers takes more attempts from those ranges, his career percentage goes above Vinatieri's. Let's not forget to throw in the fact that he set the record for most field goals made in a season. Before someone makes the Vinatieri does it in the clutch or wins in the playoffs...that's the argument you use for top players in the NBA players, pitchers, and quarterbacks. Not for Kickers. Kickers performance should be based solely on statistics and with that said based on the facts I have presented, I think Akers is the best Kicker of all time. Would I still want Vinatieri kicking in the Super Bowl, sure. But only if I didn't have Akers on my sideline.
September 10, 201214 yr Author Just too add to Akers argument: Longest Field Goal in NFL history (shared): 63 yards Consecutive postseason field goal conversions: 19 Points in a single decade (2000–2009): 1,169 (Vinatieri played in that decade) Points in Pro Bowl History: 57 Most points in a season, no touchdowns (2011): 166 Most games 4+ field goals in a season (2011): 6 Most games 10+ points in a season (2011): 10 - tied with four others Field Goals in an NFL Season: 44
September 10, 201214 yr I don't think you can just go by numbers, but if you do I think you have to consider the multiple kickers who have done it well for longer than Akers as well. Jason Elam CAREER % - 80.7 LONG - 63 50+ - 60% 40-49 - 66.1 30-39 - 89.8 20-29 - 96.2 XP - 99.4 436 total field goals out of 540 attempts John Carney CAREER - 82.4 LONG - 54 50+ - 60 40-49 - 68.3 30-39 - 85.9 20-29 - 96.3 XP - 98.4 478/580 Morten Andersen CAREER - 79.7 LONG - 60 50+ - 49.0 40-49 - 69.5 30-39 - 89.0 20-29 - 98.3 XP 98.8 565/709 Akers has kicked only 341 field goals out of 414. All of these guys have similar numbers but have done it longer.
September 10, 201214 yr Jason Hanson CAREER - 82 % Long - 56 50+ - 55 % 40-49 - 72.1 30-39 - 92.8 20-29 - 97.7 1-19 - 100.0 XP - 98.7 465/567
September 10, 201214 yr Author Very valid point about longevity, but I'm not sure that you can say just because they've done it longer that they are better. That's like saying Robert Parrish is one of the best players to ever play basketball beacause of his longevity. But it does help their argument. And maybe in a few years it won't matter because Akers will have done it just as long as some of these guys. But to help the discussion (this year counts for a current kicker): Akers 14 years 205 games Elam 17 years 263 games Carney 23 years 203 games Andersen 25 years 382 games Hanson 21 years 312 games
September 10, 201214 yr Phil Dawson because he once ran a fake field goal in for a touchdown. Kicked the extra point. Then forced a fumble and recovered it on the insuing kickoff.
September 10, 201214 yr Before someone makes the Vinatieri does it in the clutch or wins in the playoffs...that's the argument you use for top players in the NBA players, pitchers, and quarterbacks. Not for Kickers. Kickers performance should be based solely on statistics and with that said based on the facts I have presented, I think Akers is the best Kicker of all time. Would I still want Vinatieri kicking in the Super Bowl, sure. But only if I didn't have Akers on my sideline. I don't know that I'd entirely agree with that. How many times have coaches managed a game down to the final seconds where a field goal wins the game for them? Using your reasoning, a miss here is the same as a miss in the first quarter. But, if you miss in the first quarter, your team still has 3 quarters left to try and make those points up. You miss it with :03 on the clock in the fourth, you lose. So yes, I'd have to say coming through in the clutch is definitely worth something.
September 10, 201214 yr Author I don't know that I'd entirely agree with that. How many times have coaches managed a game down to the final seconds where a field goal wins the game for them? Using your reasoning, a miss here is the same as a miss in the first quarter. But, if you miss in the first quarter, your team still has 3 quarters left to try and make those points up. You miss it with :03 on the clock in the fourth, you lose. So yes, I'd have to say coming through in the clutch is definitely worth something. I do see what you're saying and agree to an extent. But saying that someone like Vinatieri is better than Akers isn't right in my opinion. He gets a lot of credit for making those kicks, but a lot of others we've named could/would have in that spot as well. Just because he was on great teams, which gave him big game opportunities, doesn't make him better in my opinion.
September 10, 201214 yr I'll take The Garbage Picking Field Goal Kicking Philadelphia Phenomenon, Tony Danza.
September 10, 201214 yr It's Monday and I'm doing everything I can to procrastinate. The question was brought up in another thread about the best Kicker of all time. So far the discussion is between David Akers and Adam Vinatieri. I will argue for Akers. He has been one of the most consistent kickers throughout his entire career. I will give credit where it's due to Vinateri, but a kicker can only be in those biggest moments because the team put him there. I went ahead and just did some comparative research and I will let you decide, but in my opinion I'd take Akers. Can't fault the guy because Vinatieri played on better teams with stronger offenses/defenses that put him in games that mattered more: Akers Vinatieri Career 82.4% 82.7% Long 63 57 Over 50+ 55% 48% 40-49 70% 72% 30-39 89% 84% 20-29 99.1% 96.6% 1-19 100% 100% XP 98.9% 98.3% * I tried to space this better but when submitted it crunches it together. Hope the point still gets across. Only reason Vinatieri has a better career percentage is because he took 34 more attempts from 20-29 and 17 more attempts from 30-39. Akers takes more attempts from those ranges, his career percentage goes above Vinatieri's. Let's not forget to throw in the fact that he set the record for most field goals made in a season. Before someone makes the Vinatieri does it in the clutch or wins in the playoffs...that's the argument you use for top players in the NBA players, pitchers, and quarterbacks. Not for Kickers. Kickers performance should be based solely on statistics and with that said based on the facts I have presented, I think Akers is the best Kicker of all time. Would I still want Vinatieri kicking in the Super Bowl, sure. But only if I didn't have Akers on my sideline. How can you say being clutch is not involved in the discussion? I mean kickers are the one guy on the team if they mess up just once, could cost a team a game and they know that! Shoot kicker is the one position I woudln't want to be playing at the end of the game. If you make it then people say well that is what they are suppose to do, but if you miss then everyone knows who's fault it is. Kickers know this, so yes being able to make clutch kicks does matter. Also lets not act like Akers didn't play on good teams either, he played on great teams too. Didnt the Eagles go to the NFC Championship 4 years in a row, and then also make a super bowl? Clutch kicks does matter, and throw in the fact the weather and kicking surfaces these guys have made big kicks in matters too. I seriously doubt many kickers Akers included make the kics Vinateri did in the snow in the playoff game, and the one being one he had to make just to tie the game in the 4th or else they lose. Clutch kicks do matter. Also looking at your stats they both are very close in every category, so when you do add in the clutch kicks like you should. That is the thing that puts Vinateri over Akers. Is it close between them too yes, but you do have to count those kicks he made with all the pressure in the world on him. Knowing if he misses those kicks they possibly lose. So it is close but that does put Vinateri over him.
September 10, 201214 yr Author How can you say being clutch is not involved in the discussion? I mean kickers are the one guy on the team if they mess up just once, could cost a team a game and they know that! Shoot kicker is the one position I woudln't want to be playing at the end of the game. If you make it then people say well that is what they are suppose to do, but if you miss then everyone knows who's fault it is. Kickers know this, so yes being able to make clutch kicks does matter. Also lets not act like Akers didn't play on good teams either, he played on great teams too. Didnt the Eagles go to the NFC Championship 4 years in a row, and then also make a super bowl? Clutch kicks does matter, and throw in the fact the weather and kicking surfaces these guys have made big kicks in matters too. I seriously doubt many kickers Akers included make the kics Vinateri did in the snow in the playoff game, and the one being one he had to make just to tie the game in the 4th or else they lose. Clutch kicks do matter. Also looking at your stats they both are very close in every category, so when you do add in the clutch kicks like you should. That is the thing that puts Vinateri over Akers. Is it close between them too yes, but you do have to count those kicks he made with all the pressure in the world on him. Knowing if he misses those kicks they possibly lose. So it is close but that does put Vinateri over him. Akers can't help it that his team wasn't in the Super Bowl to make those clutch kicks like Vinatieri, so he can't be penalized for it. Quarterbacks should have the number of champsionships involved in their discussion of greatness...Kickers should not in my opinion. You can't make the arguement that Akers is any less clutch than Vinatieri, can you? Did Akers miss the game winning field goals in games? No, so how can you say Vinatieri is better just because he had the opportunity? The clutch arguement usually comes into play when players you are comparing "is not clutch" (see Lebron James before this year). You can't say Akers is not clutch, so I dont' believe that should push Vinatieri ahead of him. Edited September 10, 201214 yr by MJAlltheWay24
September 10, 201214 yr I do see what you're saying and agree to an extent. But saying that someone like Vinatieri is better than Akers isn't right in my opinion. He gets a lot of credit for making those kicks, but a lot of others we've named could/would have in that spot as well. Just because he was on great teams, which gave him big game opportunities, doesn't make him better in my opinion. I hear you but respectfully disagree. Best example I can use is Mike Vanderjagt. Guy did not miss a FG for the Colts. Literally, he went a full season without missing a FG, then he botched one against the Steelers. Next seasons the Colts dump him because he is a head case and pay the highest salary ever given to a kicker to Adam Vinatieri. I think impeccable concentration and clutchness is very much pertinent when evaluating kickers because they are relied upon so much... especially in the biggest of moments. Vinatieri has two daggers than won Superbowls, and two of the most amazing makes when they beat Oakland in the snow in '02.
September 10, 201214 yr Akers can't help it that his team wasn't in the Super Bowl to make those clutch kicks like Vinatieri, so he can't be penalized for it. Quarterbacks should have the number of champsionships involved in their discussion of greatness...Kickers should not in my opinion. You can't make the arguement that Akers is any less clutch than Vinatieri, can you? Did Akers miss the game winning field goals in games? No, so how can you say Vinatieri is better just because he had the opportunity? The clutch arguement usually comes into play when players you are comparing "is not clutch" (see Lebron James before this year). You can't say Akers is not clutch, so I dont' believe that should push Vinatieri ahead of him. Fair point. But on the other side I cannot dismiss what Viniateri did just because Akers' teams have not made it.
September 10, 201214 yr Fair point. But on the other side I cannot dismiss what Viniateri did just because Akers' teams have not made it. Akers is a good kicker. But having those clutch kicks like Vinatieri has in the playoffs/super bowl separate him. You'd be hard pressed to find many people other than MJ who think Akers is the greatest kicker of all time, IMO.
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