I wasn't too surprised by this.

Anyone else read the PDF on ESPN's website from Gregg Williams? It is pretty damning of Jonathan Vilma and Will Smith. I would think this could lead to suspensions being levied, again.

http://assets.espn.go.com/pdf/2012/0917/greggwilliamsdocument.pdf

 

Here is the link to the PDF.

So basically you have the word of one man as the lynchpin of the case.

 

Goodell will not go down in history as a very good commissioner.

So basically you have the word of one man as the lynchpin of the case.

 

Goodell will not go down in history as a very good commissioner.

 

It's the word of the man who ran the show. What more could you ask for? He's giving pretty specific details as well.

So basically you have the word of one man as the lynchpin of the case.

 

Goodell will not go down in history as a very good commissioner.

 

Why not go by that guys word? I mean they guy could have tried to deny everything like the players have, so what reason would he have to admit these things if not true? Unless he has it out for these players for some reason, but I doubt that is the case.

 

The players know that they have a good case so of coarse they will deny it. Its very hard to prove in a football game that someone was trying to intentionally hurt someone unless you just stomp on someone like Haynesworth did. So they are smart to deny it, because the NFL won't be able to find visual evidence. However it most likely probably did exist and did happen. There is a better chance that Williams is telling teh truth than the players. Just like all the steroid stuff in baseball when players deny it.

It's the word of the man who ran the show. What more could you ask for? He's giving pretty specific details as well.

 

Corroborating evidence. The NFL has one affidavit. Vilma claims to have eight or nine on his side. There is no smoking gun here. If there was, the NFL would have put it in front of everyone's faces months upon months ago.

 

Why not go by that guys word? I mean they guy could have tried to deny everything like the players have, so what reason would he have to admit these things if not true? Unless he has it out for these players for some reason, but I doubt that is the case.

 

You don't suppose that the guy who has been banned indefinitely from the league might find it in his best interest to roll with the party line of the entity that could reinstate him?

 

Goodell has focused on this issue for far too long while the issue that is truly detrimental to the league - the replacement refs - is raging out of control. There haven't been many NFL commissioners, but Roger has easily positioned himself to be the worst.

 

Corroborating evidence. The NFL has one affidavit. Vilma claims to have eight or nine on his side. There is no smoking gun here. If there was, the NFL would have put it in front of everyone's faces months upon months ago.

 

You don't suppose that the guy who has been banned indefinitely from the league might find it in his best interest to roll with the party line of the entity that could reinstate him?

 

Goodell has focused on this issue for far too long while the issue that is truly detrimental to the league - the replacement refs - is raging out of control. There haven't been many NFL commissioners, but Roger has easily positioned himself to be the worst.

 

Why isn't Vilma showing his evidence? Obviously the NFL had some info to begin their investigation and to suspend Williams with. They have the audio of Williams speech to the defense, they have the the audio of someone on the sidelines saying "pay me my money" and they have Williams admitting that they were paying for "cart offs" and "knock outs".

 

I don't think we know everything the NFL has but Williams statement alone is pretty bad for Vilma IMO.

 

We have seen nothing of what Vilma has. We've heard him say innocent but that's it.

Why isn't Vilma showing his evidence? Obviously the NFL had some info to begin their investigation and to suspend Williams with. They have the audio of Williams speech to the defense, they have the the audio of someone on the sidelines saying "pay me my money" and they have Williams admitting that they were paying for "cart offs" and "knock outs".

 

I don't think we know everything the NFL has but Williams statement alone is pretty bad for Vilma IMO.

 

We have seen nothing of what Vilma has. We've heard him say innocent but that's it.

 

At this point Vilma doesn't has to show anything. He won his appeal and is eligible to play right now. The burden is on Goodell to show and prove that Vilma did wrong. If all he has is Williams then that's pretty weak. Isn't Williams playing the role of the felon trying to get his sentence shortened by lying on the stand for the prosecutor? What makes Williams more credible than Vilma? He said she said won't get you fired/suspended where I work at.

I think some are also misconstruing what the judges who ruled in Vilma's favor said. Many are portraying it like they exonerated all involved. They did not really dispute the NFL's findings, they just ruled the Goodell overstepped his boundaries and laying down the hammer.

 

I have felt all along Vilma, et al. did exactly what was shown. However, I felt Goodell did rush to a decision and set the penalties way too high. The coaches involved deserved more yet he put Vilma on the same level as Sean Payton. That was not fair. I thought Vilma handled it poorly as well with his refusal to meet with the Commissioner from the onset.

 

I am more inclined to give more credence to the NFL's findings than the opposite which is, "these guys have an axe to grind."

Corroborating evidence. The NFL has one affidavit. Vilma claims to have eight or nine on his side. There is no smoking gun here. If there was, the NFL would have put it in front of everyone's faces months upon months ago.

 

 

 

You don't suppose that the guy who has been banned indefinitely from the league might find it in his best interest to roll with the party line of the entity that could reinstate him?

 

Goodell has focused on this issue for far too long while the issue that is truly detrimental to the league - the replacement refs - is raging out of control. There haven't been many NFL commissioners, but Roger has easily positioned himself to be the worst.

 

The man who was banned never even tried to fight the charges to begin with, so its not like he just went with it to help his chances. By him admitting to it as soon as it all came out basically hurt his chances of coaching in the NFL. If he wanted to better his chances he would have at least tries to twist the story around for his benefit, but he never did. So why would he lie about Vilma? While the guys Vilma has on his side are all players too, so its not like they are going to say yeah he did. Especially when a lot of those players are on the Saints still and know they need him to play this year. Vima has more to gain by lying than Williams does by lying and saying that. Vilma and the players and just smart because they know it will be impossible to really prove without visual proof so its easy to deny.

The man who was banned never even tried to fight the charges to begin with, so its not like he just went with it to help his chances. By him admitting to it as soon as it all came out basically hurt his chances of coaching in the NFL. If he wanted to better his chances he would have at least tries to twist the story around for his benefit, but he never did. So why would he lie about Vilma? While the guys Vilma has on his side are all players too, so its not like they are going to say yeah he did. Especially when a lot of those players are on the Saints still and know they need him to play this year. Vima has more to gain by lying than Williams does by lying and saying that. Vilma and the players and just smart because they know it will be impossible to really prove without visual proof so its easy to deny.

 

OK, that's fine. So it still comes down to a game of he said/he said. You'd have to have something else to win in court - I feel strongly it should be the same in handing out punishments.

 

At this point Vilma doesn't has to show anything. He won his appeal and is eligible to play right now. The burden is on Goodell to show and prove that Vilma did wrong. If all he has is Williams then that's pretty weak. Isn't Williams playing the role of the felon trying to get his sentence shortened by lying on the stand for the prosecutor? What makes Williams more credible than Vilma? He said she said won't get you fired/suspended where I work at.

 

It's not just Williams. They had to have some information to start an investigation. They have others who have came forward, no doubt.

 

And what makes Williams more credible? He was honest from the beginning. He admitted his wrong doings and went away quietly.