I am glad we have the option to take a case to court when you feel like the KHSAA has made a poor ruling in an eligibility issue. It is a natural progression to seek a higher opinion in court to settle a case like that. The KHSAA is not perfect and sometimes they do not apply their own rules equitably in every case and we need to be able to challenge their decisions or they have an unfair control over everyone involved.

 

The problem I see that sometimes arises is that some folks know they can play the system a bit to buy some more playing time, regarless of whether they think the KHSAA ruled properly or not. For example, let's assume a player transfers from one school to another and the parents know that they didn't have a bonafide change of residence as is required by the KHSAA bylaw. Further assume the KHSAA rules the player does not qualify for a waiver to the transfer rule and thus has to sit out a year in that sport. The parents can take that issue to court for a ruling, and in the meantime, while they wait for the case to come up on the docket, they ask for an injuction by the court to allow the player to continue to play while the case plays itself out. The school can then play that player in good conscience with no penalty. If the court case drags out beyond the season, then the outcome is really irrelevant and the parents have successfully beat the system, legally.

 

After years of watching these cases play out, and having some change of heart about the matter, I now agree with leatherneck that kids and parents should be allowed to choose to transfer their kids to whatever school they want with no penalty. The whole point of these rules are to discourage illegal recruiting by coaches/programs, but our focus on enforcement is to punish the player. So shift that focus to the coaches and schools. If we allow kids to transfer (at least once) with no loss of playing time, and in conjunction with that we increase the penalty for illegal recruiting and punish the coaches and schools when it is proven, I think it would be a better system. The severity of the punishment would be a good debate, but IMO any coach found guilty of recruiting would face unpaid suspension and/or banishment on a sliding scale and the offending school would face monetary punishment on a sliding scale (increasing with each offense). Then we would be punishing the guilty instead of punishing the teenage players.

 

What do you do to punish the school or coaches if the player involved is allowed to play? Reduce their practice or scrimmage time maybe? Make them ineligible for post season play?

What do you do to punish the school or coaches if the player involved is allowed to play? Reduce their practice or scrimmage time maybe? Make them ineligible for post season play?

If the coaches are found guilty of illegal recruiting you punish them with suspensions and you punish the school financially and you make them inelligible for post season play.

If the coaches are found guilty of illegal recruiting you punish them with suspensions and you punish the school financially and you make them inelligible for post season play.

 

It seems that most of the recruiting occurs at the middle school level where KHSAA regulations have no applicability. At this level, it is done pretty openly and blatantly. Even for transfers in High School, if you provide KHSAA with a new address, it seems a waiver can be granted. If a kid is determine to play some where else, there is really nothing to stop him.

It seems that most of the recruiting occurs at the middle school level where KHSAA regulations have no applicability. At this level, it is done pretty openly and blatantly. Even for transfers in High School, if you provide KHSAA with a new address, it seems a waiver can be granted. If a kid is determine to play some where else, there is really nothing to stop him.

 

Actually, a high school coach that recruits a middle school kid that is not within the high school's feeder system is violating the KHSAA rules. If Mueller showed up at a Red Devil game and recruited a kid attending a Campbell County elementary school, he would be violating the KHSAA recruiting rule.

 

I have long advocated to the KHSAA that any coach found to have violated the recruiting rule should be banned for life from coaching in Kentucky. No exceptions. They are adults and know better.

If the coaches are found guilty of illegal recruiting you punish them with suspensions and you punish the school financially and you make them inelligible for post season play.

 

 

I'm with you up to the post season play part. That sanction unfairly impacts kids on the team that did nothing wrong.

 

Go after the coaches big time that cheat; go after the administrators for failing to properly supervise. Just don't punish the kids that did nothing wrong.

Actually, a high school coach that recruits a middle school kid that is not within the high school's feeder system is violating the KHSAA rules. If Mueller showed up at a Red Devil game and recruited a kid attending a Campbell County elementary school, he would be violating the KHSAA recruiting rule.

 

I have long advocated to the KHSAA that any coach found to have violated the recruiting rule should be banned for life from coaching in Kentucky. No exceptions. They are adults and know better.

 

Not applicable if the coach in question is a middle school coach. This is where you see the activity.

2C is correct. The injunction filed was temporary and required very little info for the judge to award. There will be a hearing scheduled for a permanent injunction. It's then that the player and representatives will have to bring their side of the case. If the permanent injunction is awarded, you can best believe the KHSAA will appeal that case(the next day) and it will then move to the center of the state. However, 2C is correct, it's a time game that can be won in the event that the permanent injunction is either not awarded or if the permanent injunction is awarded and then appealed. If a student is a senior, there's no doubt a temporary injunction would be sought. My guess, considering I understand how the county in which it was filed works, is that the hearing for the perm. injunction would take place in Nov or Dec of this year. IF that happens, football is long gone. The attorney representing the student can postpone, within reason, the hearing. Eventually it will be heard, then the process goes from there and frankly, the athlete will be done with football and into basketball season. The repercussions on the school will be that all wins with that athlete (if found in favor of the KHSAA) are vacated because he was ineligible and there will be a financial penalty to some degree on the school. Unless I'm mistaken, there will be no sanctions placed upon the school because that is the legal recourse of the athlete.

 

I'll give you another one from our county here in Boyd. 4 years ago, a student was denied eligibility and followed this very process. A temporary injunction was placed, the athlete played an entire soccer season. That student is now a junior in college playing soccer and that case never made it to the perm. injunction hearing.

Whatever rules are in place at whatever time will fail if people don't become honest and ethical. To manipulate a rule for an advantage is not ethical. To fabricate an address or a move is unethical. Actually it is lying. I am not accusing Fairview of anything unethical or illegal, I am making a general statement.

I'm with you up to the post season play part. That sanction unfairly impacts kids on the team that did nothing wrong.

 

Go after the coaches big time that cheat; go after the administrators for failing to properly supervise. Just don't punish the kids that did nothing wrong.

 

I have a problem with this line of thinking. The punishment that fits the crime is suspension from post season play IMO. You teach a lesson that cheating will cost you the chance at championships with this form of punishment. The problem is that the KHSAA has never sent a harsh enough message to those that have been found guilty. Small fines and suspensions for coaches just don't do the trick. Taking away playoff opportunities and championships would do the trick. Sometimes the group has to pay for the mistakes of a few.

After the Highlands fiasco involving Mitchell I wouldn't risk it. Good luck with that.

I have a problem with this line of thinking. The punishment that fits the crime is suspension from post season play IMO. You teach a lesson that cheating will cost you the chance at championships with this form of punishment. The problem is that the KHSAA has never sent a harsh enough message to those that have been found guilty. Small fines and suspensions for coaches just don't do the trick. Taking away playoff opportunities and championships would do the trick. Sometimes the group has to pay for the mistakes of a few.

I would have to agree with leatherneck. Seriously, how many championship teams are there? In the scope of the membership of the KHSAA, there are far more schools that will likely be also-rans and have just as many issues if not more than the champions. I'm also not a fan of punishing the kids who were innocent of any wrongdoing.

How about granting an exemption to transfer rule for all players of the offending program?

I would have to agree with leatherneck. Seriously, how many championship teams are there? In the scope of the membership of the KHSAA, there are far more schools that will likely be also-rans and have just as many issues if not more than the champions. I'm also not a fan of punishing the kids who were innocent of any wrongdoing.

 

The kids are part of a program that is involved in wrongdoing. Therefore, the program needs to suffer a punishment. What happened to Lexington Catholic and LCA after they both got caught cheating? In the grand scheme of things, nothing but small fines paid. There were no punishments rendered that taught any sort of lesson. Elimination from post season play would have taught a lesson.

The kids are part of a program that is involved in wrongdoing. Therefore, the program needs to suffer a punishment. What happened to Lexington Catholic and LCA after they both got caught cheating? In the grand scheme of things, nothing but small fines paid. There were no punishments rendered that taught any sort of lesson. Elimination from post season play would have taught a lesson.

Can't play without a coach. Administrators turn a blind eye to what is going on. I think they are the guilty parties. I think punishing with post season loss is putting a band-aid on a broken arm. Punish the guilty parties. Integrity starts at the top. If you penalize with post season penalty, and you have the same coaches and admin in place, how long before the same thing reoccurs? Punish the coaches and administrators and perhaps you can curb it better. I don't know the best solution. I'm not sure we aren't headed for club sports and seeing high school sports as we know them in the rearview mirror anyway.

How about granting an exemption to transfer rule for all players of the offending program?

 

This is high school not college. It's not a realistic/fair/right to ask an entire school to suffer because of a few folks actions. Should the entire school get to transfer so that the girls that want to cheer for their football team can? What about the band members that want to play at the home games? Students that just want to go cheer on their friends? This is high school football not big money college football, I'm sorry but your proposal is ridiculous.