I'd vote Sosa first ballot also.

I'd be shocked if Jr. didn't use.

I'd vote for him if he was convicted. I'd also vote for Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds and probably even Sammy Sosa.

I never said Clemens was guilty because Pettite used.

 

So have you looked up Junior and steroids? Do you think the Mitchell report was 100% correct? Look at David Ortiz, does he looks like a steroid user? Have his numbers went down since they started testing? He's the same dumpy guy he was 10 years ago. Yet he was named and he said he never took anything he didn't get over the counter. Yet he's a steroid user? How do you feel about Big Papi?

If clemens gets in then Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro, etc, should be in.

 

So have you looked up Junior and steroids? Do you think the Mitchell report was 100% correct? Look at David Ortiz, does he looks like a steroid user? Have his numbers went down since they started testing? He's the same dumpy guy he was 10 years ago. Yet he was named and he said he never took anything he didn't get over the counter. Yet he's a steroid user? How do you feel about Big Papi?

 

Yeah I looked up Jr. and steroids. Didn't see ANYTHING that linked Jr. to steroids. Just a bunch of guys like you trying to say how can you exempt him. What did it gain Clemens's former trainer and Pettite to come out and say Clemens used? That is what convinced me. Nothing else. Never paid attention to Big Papi. Didn't know if he was or wasn't on the Mitchell report.

Yeah I looked up Jr. and steroids. Didn't see ANYTHING that linked Jr. to steroids. Just a bunch of guys like you trying to say how can you exempt him. What did it gain Clemens's former trainer and Pettite to come out and say Clemens used? That is what convinced me. Nothing else. Never paid attention to Big Papi. Didn't know if he was or wasn't on the Mitchell report.

 

I never said he was in the Mitchell Report or anything. I'm just saying he played in that era, he suffered from some injuries that chronic steroids users suffered from and he played on a team with some known users. Why does he get a free pass? He put up incredible numbers right in the middle of the steroid era and suffered a huge dropoff. But because everyone likes the Kid he couldn't have used, right?

I never said he was in the Mitchell Report or anything. I'm just saying he played in that era, he suffered from some injuries that chronic steroids users suffered from and he played on a team with some known users. Why does he get a free pass? He put up incredible numbers right in the middle of the steroid era and suffered a huge dropoff. But because everyone likes the Kid he couldn't have used, right?

 

I think it is more that he has never been linked with any reports or books is why people think he was clean.

 

I never said he was in the Mitchell Report or anything. I'm just saying he played in that era, he suffered from some injuries that chronic steroids users suffered from and he played on a team with some known users. Why does he get a free pass? He put up incredible numbers right in the middle of the steroid era and suffered a huge dropoff. But because everyone likes the Kid he couldn't have used, right?

 

Sure he could have. He's getting a pass because he's never been accused of it. Don't you think Canseco would have mentioned Jr. if he had even heard a rumor that he had used? You didn't answer my question about Pettite or McNamee. I just feel if Jr. had ever used he would have been linked to it, or mentioned by one of his former teammates.

I feel like there is some parallel in this to the Pete Rose saga. Unfortunately, Pete was tried by the baseball commissioner who can do whatever he wants. If only poor Pete could have gone before a court of law. He never would have told the truth and he would probably be in the HOF.

Sure he could have. He's getting a pass because he's never been accused of it. Don't you think Canseco would have mentioned Jr. if he had even heard a rumor that he had used? You didn't answer my question about Pettite or McNamee. I just feel if Jr. had ever used he would have been linked to it, or mentioned by one of his former teammates.

 

 

I guess I missed the season that Canseco and Junior played together. Unless he was hanging out in the opponents locker room it would be hard for him to name Junior, right? And unless I'm mistaken Buhner and Blowers (among others on the Mariners) never pointed fingers. So in essence, you are saying that Junior is 100% clean, and you wouldbet the twins lives on it? There were a lot of names on the Mitchell Report that were never made public.

I guess I missed the season that Canseco and Junior played together. Unless he was hanging out in the opponents locker room it would be hard for him to name Junior, right? And unless I'm mistaken Buhner and Blowers (among others on the Mariners) never pointed fingers. So in essence, you are saying that Junior is 100% clean, and you wouldbet the twins lives on it? There were a lot of names on the Mitchell Report that were never made public.

 

Clemens used. Just like Pete bet on baseball.

 

I guess I missed the season that Canseco and Junior played together. Unless he was hanging out in the opponents locker room it would be hard for him to name Junior, right? And unless I'm mistaken Buhner and Blowers (among others on the Mariners) never pointed fingers. So in essence, you are saying that Junior is 100% clean, and you wouldbet the twins lives on it? There were a lot of names on the Mitchell Report that were never made public.

 

Don't ever bring my kids lives into any debate I have with you. We're done.

Don't ever bring my kids lives into any debate I have with you. We're done.

 

Okay, would you want to bet your retirement that Junior was clean?

Don't ever bring my kids lives into any debate I have with you. We're done.

 

My point was how confident are you that Junior or any player in the 90's through 2005 was clean? Griffey was one of my favorite players but I'm not certain that he didn't use. I'm willing to just accept that a large percentage of the players in that era did use and since I don't know who did and didn't I might put a mental asterisk by their numbers. However, I wouldn't let that keep me from voting for them for the Hall of Fame if they were the best of their era.