There are very few facts we really know about the case.

1) Martin was not armed

2) Zimmerman was armed

3) Zimmerman followed Martin despite being told by a dispatcher that he didn't need to

4) There was a fight

5) Zimmerman shot and killed Martin

 

Seems to me everything else is disputed at this point unless I'm missing something.

A police officer said it. Do you read or skim and find what you are looking for? Has nothing to do with if 85 were king. "Teachers teach and do the world good. Kings just rule and most are never understood" KRS-ONE on his seminal, timeless classic "My Philosophy" - subliminal diss of Run-DMC for those who don't know.

As far as light on substance, first tell me what depraved mind state means. Then tell me that profiling a boy, calling him an a-hole and accosting him against police suggestions is not depraved. I'm not buying it. Zimmerman running through a neighborhood after a non-suspect, while having a firearm on him, but once again, chasing a non-suspect is depraved and morally corrupt. Had trayvon committed a crime, then yes Zimmerman might have something.

Yes, Zimmerman was within his rights to follow the boy, but much like driving a car with your feet, you can do it but doesn't make it a good idea.

 

 

"If you were to goven or rule a certain industry; all inside this room right now would be in misery.

No one would get along, nor sing a song

Cuz everyone would be singing for the king, am I wrong?" KRS-ONE = Knowledge reigns supreme over nearly everyone. Emphasis on nearly.

 

See, now I'm gonna have 'My Philosophy' in my head the rest of the day.

1. Damn right it is not the ACT, it's the life of a boy. Zimmerman guessed wrong, now suffer the penalty.

2. Girlfriend's statement is very key to case, quite possible the straw that broke the camel's back in determining what charges to file.

 

The facts are Zimmerman profiled a boy and guessed wrong. He followed him after the police suggested he didn't. He ran through a neighborhood with a gun on him. He accosted the boy and the girlfriend backs that story up. He called the kid an a-hole. Are those not facts? The boy was unarmed. Police say the confrontation was avoidable. Zimmerman's head is bloodied and nose broken. Zimmerman got his arse whipped. The witnesses are changing their statements, yes. In my opinion they are changing them in Trayvon's favor.

 

When you mention Clyde, one you are wrong. But two, you sound like Frank Taafe and Joe Oliver. I don't have to answer to anyone. And as always, in the immortal words of John Henrick Clark, I only debate....you know know the rest.

 

1. It was your example, not mine. I'm glad we both agree it goofy.

2. One of the only things you've said that I actually agree about. If she can connect the dots that Zimmerman did in fact start the fight and the jury believes her GZ is probably in trouble.

 

Doesn't matter if he is wrong because profiling isn't against the law. GZ running through a neighborhood with a gun has no bearing on the case, as long he was legal. He allegedly accosted the boy. The girl friends statement comes down to a he said she said. It will depend on whose story the jury believes. He did he call Martin an a-hole?

 

As already mentioned, the confrontation being avoidable doesn't matter. Every situation is avoidable. I think the witnesses changing their statements only hurts the prosecution. I would take what the said to the police the night it happen as being much more credible.

 

The rest of your post isn't worth responding to.

Holds water only if Zimmerman didn't believe Martin to be a suspect.

 

A suspect of what? What was Trayvon doing to be a suspect?

There are very few facts we really know about the case.

1) Martin was not armed

2) Zimmerman was armed

3) Zimmerman followed Martin despite being told by a dispatcher that he didn't need to

4) There was a fight

5) Zimmerman shot and killed Martin

 

Seems to me everything else is disputed at this point unless I'm missing something.

 

 

These simple facts are why I believe in my average Joe Schmo mentality that Zimmerman is guilty of murder. Until evidence comes out in the court of law to convince me otherwise...this is my story and I am sticking to it.

Trayvon Martin shooting: Witnesses change stories ahead of Zimmerman trial | The Lookout - Yahoo! News

 

Four days after the shooting, one woman told police she "saw two guys running" and then "a fistfight—just fists, I don't know who was hitting who." But on March 20, she told investigators she saw just one person.

 

"I couldn't tell you if it was a man, a woman, a kid, black or white," the woman, "Witness 2," said. "I couldn't tell you because it was dark and because I didn't have my contacts on or glasses. I just know I saw a person out there."

 

But in another interview with investigators six days later, the paper reported, she was sure: It was Zimmerman on top.

 

"I know after seeing the TV of what's happening, comparing their sizes, I think Zimmerman was definitely on top because of his size," the woman, "Witness 12," said.

 

A third witness, "Witness 6," told police on the night of the shooting he saw a black man on top of a lighter-skinned man "just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA-style." He said the lighter-skinned man was calling for help. Interviewed later by investigators, he said he was not sure who was calling for help, and was not sure any punches were thrown.

 

A fourth witness also interviewed on the night of the shooting said he heard the shooting, ran outside, and saw Zimmerman standing with "blood on the back of his head." According to "Witness 13," Zimmerman told him that Martin "was beating up on me, so I had to shoot him."

 

I am so geeked for this court case!!!! :lol:

A suspect of what? What was Trayvon doing to be a suspect?

Break ins. That's what he said on the 911 call anyway. You will also note that Martin was approaching Zimmerman when he was on with 911 and acting suspicious.

 

Also, at the time of the 911 call Zimmerman had lost track of Martin. Does anyone know how much time elapsed between GZ hanging up with the dispatcher and the shooting?

Break ins. That's what he said on the 911 call anyway. You will also note that Martin was approaching Zimmerman when he was on with 911 and acting suspicious.

 

Also, at the time of the 911 call Zimmerman had lost track of Martin. Does anyone know how much time elapsed between GZ hanging up with the dispatcher and the shooting?

 

One witness says Trayvon ran away from GZ once and lost him and then GZ found him again. We here on BGP don't have an official ruling of who approached who or who started the fight. The only stone cold lock facts we have are in post 76.

A police officer said it. Do you read or skim and find what you are looking for? Has nothing to do with if 85 were king. "Teachers teach and do the world good. Kings just rule and most are never understood" KRS-ONE on his seminal, timeless classic "My Philosophy" - subliminal diss of Run-DMC for those who don't know.

As far as light on substance, first tell me what depraved mind state means. Then tell me that profiling a boy, calling him an a-hole and accosting him against police suggestions is not depraved. I'm not buying it. Zimmerman running through a neighborhood after a non-suspect, while having a firearm on him, but once again, chasing a non-suspect is depraved and morally corrupt. Had trayvon committed a crime, then yes Zimmerman might have something.

Yes, Zimmerman was within his rights to follow the boy, but much like driving a car with your feet, you can do it but doesn't make it a good idea.

 

 

"If you were to goven or rule a certain industry; all inside this room right now would be in misery.

No one would get along, nor sing a song

Cuz everyone would be singing for the king, am I wrong?" KRS-ONE = Knowledge reigns supreme over nearly everyone. Emphasis on nearly.

 

A police office said it could be avoided if he didn't leave his car. If I call 911 from my house and say there is somebody suspicious in my front yard and the dispatcher tells me to stay inside until police come. If I go outside and the suspicious person shoots me, is that not avoidable. Does that make the suspicious person not liable because the officer told me to stay inside. This does not prove it wasn't self defense. It may or may not have. Until all the evidence comes out in court, we have no idea. And really it doesn't matter what we think, it matters what the 12 jurors think.

Edited May 23, 201214 yr by littleluck55
misspelling

Elder,

 

 

Self defense as written does not apply because Zimmerman culd have avoided confrontation had he listened to the police and not continued to follow the child.

 

So you're saying the written law says if someone could have avoided a confrontation then self-defense is no longer an option? Can you support that?

 

You get to play prosecutor here. Point us to the place in the law that says "confrontation" nulls self-defense.

So you're saying the written law says if someone could have avoided a confrontation then self-defense is no longer an option? Can you support that?

 

You get to play prosecutor here. Point us to the place in the law that says "confrontation" nulls self-defense.

 

Elder,

 

"I'll play the 9 and you play the target." - KRS-ONE

Had Zimmerman acted with reason and listened to a police officer, he would have never encountered Martin. To confront someone, then claim self-defense is where the spirit of the law will come into play. A judge will interpret the law his/her own way. We see how it is written and what words are there. But when a judge is to interpret a law, he/she can interpret it their own way, and make you appeal it. But to answer yet another ridiculous question, we are forgetting, Trayvon was the one being followed and evidence suggests he defended himself quite well, when it was a fair one. Just because trayvon was killed, doesn't mean he wasn't defending himself at some point. Why because he was a kid being stalked by a stranger. The girlfriend's testimony will lock up Zimmerman alone. She will force Zimmerman to take the stand. How many murder 2 defendants take the stand? Only the desperate ones.

I find it funny how many of the people who call themselves debating me or PP92 or others who take our position, are very juxtaposed and conflicted. Many of you were naive enough to suggest or believe that high school kids don't have sex. Yet you want to see the murderer of a child walk and try to play Columbo with the law and evidence. Nothing suggests anything less than these two had a confrontation; Zimmerman called the police and they told him his services weren't needed; a reasonable person would not get out of their car and follow anyone at that point. He called trayvon an a-hole and profiled him. He profiled him wrong. Yet many of you claim that you are letting the facts drive you and you want justice.

 

Now some of you need to relax, take a deep breath and tell the truth and shame the devil. You have the same ideology as Geraldo Rivera, therefore a black life is debateable to you. Grown man kills a black kid and you'd rather debate that than to believe that kids are having sex in high school.

Elder,

 

"I'll play the 9 and you play the target." - KRS-ONE

Had Zimmerman acted with reason and listened to a police officer, he would have never encountered Martin. To confront someone, then claim self-defense is where the spirit of the law will come into play. A judge will interpret the law his/her own way. We see how it is written and what words are there. But when a judge is to interpret a law, he/she can interpret it their own way, and make you appeal it. But to answer yet another ridiculous question, we are forgetting, Trayvon was the one being followed and evidence suggests he defended himself quite well, when it was a fair one. Just because trayvon was killed, doesn't mean he wasn't defending himself at some point. Why because he was a kid being stalked by a stranger. The girlfriend's testimony will lock up Zimmerman alone. She will force Zimmerman to take the stand. How many murder 2 defendants take the stand? Only the desperate ones.

 

 

The problem with your "spirit of the law" logic is that judges in Florida have already used the self-defense/SYG in pre-trial motions to drop murder charges.

 

You keep pointing out how well Trayvon did with his hands. You've mentioned in numerous times. His pugilistic skills could aid the defense. Kid was so good at throwing hands that Zimmerman felt he was about to be killed.

I find it funny how many of the people who call themselves debating me or PP92 or others who take our position, are very juxtaposed and conflicted. Many of you were naive enough to suggest or believe that high school kids don't have sex. Yet you want to see the murderer of a child walk and try to play Columbo with the law and evidence. Nothing suggests anything less than these two had a confrontation; Zimmerman called the police and they told him his services weren't needed; a reasonable person would not get out of their car and follow anyone at that point. He called trayvon an a-hole and profiled him. He profiled him wrong. Yet many of you claim that you are letting the facts drive you and you want justice.

 

Now some of you need to relax, take a deep breath and tell the truth and shame the devil. You have the same ideology as Geraldo Rivera, therefore a black life is debateable to you. Grown man kills a black kid and you'd rather debate that than to believe that kids are having sex in high school.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. As soon as someone points out flaws in your logic or disagrees with you you immediately go to labeling. It reflects poorly on you and takes away from the board.

 

As one who believes wholeheartedly that we still have a problem with race in this country let me say your reflexive responses hurt the cause.

"You all know my name so I guess I'll just start it..or should I say start this...cuz I'm an artist...of styles and new concepts at their hardest...cuz yo, I'm a teacher and Scott is scholar...it ain't about money cuz we all make dollars..that's why I walk with my head up...when I hear wack rhymes I get fed up...rap is like a set up...a lot of games...a lot of suckas with colorful names...I'm so and so..I'm this I'm that..huh....but they're all just wick wick wack....I'm not white or red or black I'm brown...from the Boogie Down...."