Chapman has a very violent delivery...that is not a good thing to have as a starter. Those kind of mechanics lend themselves to arm trouble when a player gets fatigued. He also has proven to be a lot more ordinary when his velocity on his fastball drops into the mid 90's--you're going to see a lot of that with him as a starter. As for spring training, it was just that spring training. He was facing a lot of hitters getting in game shape and players that weren't going to make a roster. He was also on a strict pitch count. That wasn't a good indication of how he would perform as a starter. The Reds had plenty of bullpen depth this season. Don't you think if the management thought he needed to be a starter then he would have been a starter?

He'll be throwing on those off days. Maybe not 100% but they still throw everyday. Not sure how his arm will react to that.

 

Them throwing on there off days is nothing like getting ready back to back and sometimes 3 days in a row to throw in a game with the game on the line. Its really unknown how his arm would do as a starter.

Chapman has a very violent delivery...that is not a good thing to have as a starter. Those kind of mechanics lend themselves to arm trouble when a player gets fatigued. He also has proven to be a lot more ordinary when his velocity on his fastball drops into the mid 90's--you're going to see a lot of that with him as a starter. As for spring training, it was just that spring training. He was facing a lot of hitters getting in game shape and players that weren't going to make a roster. He was also on a strict pitch count. That wasn't a good indication of how he would perform as a starter. The Reds had plenty of bullpen depth this season. Don't you think if the management thought he needed to be a starter then he would have been a starter?

 

So he is a lot more ordinary when his fastball drops in the mid 90's based on what if he was starting? You can't use what he is doing as a closer to show how it would be as a starter. Closers don't use many pitches at all, especially him. So yes when he is closing and his fastball gets down to the mid 90's he is very ordinary because that is all he is throwing still basically. As a starter will be throwing other pitches more often so even if his fastball does get down to 95/96 as a starter it would be effective because hitters would have to account for the other pitches too. Which he shown he can throw effectively in spring training. Now can he do that in the regular season too, that is what none of us know. However is worth seeing if he can, since they know they could easily move him back if it fails.

 

Also management signed a closer because they were wanting to try Chapman as a starter. However with him being out for the year and Massett not healthy they had no one besides Marshall for the later innings.

So he is a lot more ordinary when his fastball drops in the mid 90's based on what if he was starting? You can't use what he is doing as a closer to show how it would be as a starter. Closers don't use many pitches at all, especially him. So yes when he is closing and his fastball gets down to the mid 90's he is very ordinary because that is all he is throwing still basically. As a starter will be throwing other pitches more often so even if his fastball does get down to 95/96 as a starter it would be effective because hitters would have to account for the other pitches too. Which he shown he can throw effectively in spring training. Now can he do that in the regular season too, that is what none of us know. However is worth seeing if he can, since they know they could easily move him back if it fails.

 

Also management signed a closer because they were wanting to try Chapman as a starter. However with him being out for the year and Massett not healthy they had no one besides Marshall for the later innings.

 

Please point out in the written or unwritten rules of baseball where it says that a closer can only throw a couple of pitches......I'll wait...How about this: It has been pointed out by several posters and even acknowledged by you (I can read it back to you if you want) that Chapman becomes much more ordinary when his fastball is in the mid-90's. If he really has all of these other effective pitches why doesn't he throw them in the closer's role when he doesn't have his fastball? Riddle me that...I'll tell you: he and the team don't trust those other pitches. Spring training is not a good indicator. Too many players are working on things they will not be working on in the regular season.

Please point out in the written or unwritten rules of baseball where it says that a closer can only throw a couple of pitches......I'll wait...How about this: It has been pointed out by several posters and even acknowledged by you (I can read it back to you if you want) that Chapman becomes much more ordinary when his fastball is in the mid-90's. If he really has all of these other effective pitches why doesn't he throw them in the closer's role when he doesn't have his fastball? Riddle me that...I'll tell you: he and the team don't trust those other pitches. Spring training is not a good indicator. Too many players are working on things they will not be working on in the regular season.

 

It doesn't it anywhere in the rule book. However if you watch or pay any attention at all to closers, guess how many other pitches they throw? Very little. Shoot even John Smoltz when he started to close, stopped using as many pitches as he did when starting. It is a different type of approach when you are starting and closing.

 

Surprised you didn't say anything else about the management and why he is not starting? Is that because you forgot management planned on him starting this year. Shoot even Dusty said he was the best looking starter this spring training. The plan was for him to start, injuries is the only reason he was not. Its not because they didn't trust him as a starter. Injuries is what led to him being in the pen, if the injuries don't happen then he probably was going to start with Leake in AAA.

 

I mean if they never decide to try to start him I am fine with it, because it is nice having him as a closer. However I just would like to see him have a chance to start, and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if he did. We already knew before this year that he could do great in the pen.

It is a different approach. If you have a great fastball as a closer you live and due with it. However, if you have 3 or 4 quality pitches you don't hesitate to use them when you don't have your fastball. If Chapman and his team trusted his other pitches they would use them when his velocity is down, period. The fact that they don't and continue to live and die with his B game fastball speaks volumes. I've watched and played plenty of baseball over the years. I know the game. Spring trading means nothing. Who led spring training in homers? How about batting average? Saves? Most veterans are working on getting in shape or a specific part of their game. Starters rarely go over 3 innings. It is easy for a power pitcher to look dominant in the spring on a 50 pitch limit. The Reds had an excellent bullpen even with the Madsen injury. They chose to have a shutdown closer vs a #4 starter on a pitch count and innings limit.

It is a different approach. If you have a great fastball as a closer you live and due with it. However, if you have 3 or 4 quality pitches you don't hesitate to use them when you don't have your fastball. If Chapman and his team trusted his other pitches they would use them when his velocity is down, period. The fact that they don't and continue to live and die with his B game fastball speaks volumes. I've watched and played plenty of baseball over the years. I know the game. Spring trading means nothing. Who led spring training in homers? How about batting average? Saves? Most veterans are working on getting in shape or a specific part of their game. Starters rarely go over 3 innings. It is easy for a power pitcher to look dominant in the spring on a 50 pitch limit. The Reds had an excellent bullpen even with the Madsen injury. They chose to have a shutdown closer vs a #4 starter on a pitch count and innings limit.

 

You may have already read the long post I just made. But to spare other people from reading it, I will shorten it. You probably are in the minority of people who actually think the Reds decision to put him in the bullpen was not because of injuries. Shoot even the people who are with you on the Chapman should only be in the pen probably would also admit that injuries was the main reason why he started in the pen this year. The Reds were not confident at all in the back end of the bullpen to start the year. The closer they just signed was out for the year. The guy they got to be the setup man was going to have to close, even though he never really had before. The other guy they have used as a setup man in Massett was hurt, and also wasn't Bill Brey hurt too? Reds management fully planned on trying him as a starter, and spring training did not change their mind on that. However injuries is what made the decision for them, its quite simple.

You may have already read the long post I just made. But to spare other people from reading it, I will shorten it. You probably are in the minority of people who actually think the Reds decision to put him in the bullpen was not because of injuries. Shoot even the people who are with you on the Chapman should only be in the pen probably would also admit that injuries was the main reason why he started in the pen this year. The Reds were not confident at all in the back end of the bullpen to start the year. The closer they just signed was out for the year. The guy they got to be the setup man was going to have to close, even though he never really had before. The other guy they have used as a setup man in Massett was hurt, and also wasn't Bill Brey hurt too? Reds management fully planned on trying him as a starter, and spring training did not change their mind on that. However injuries is what made the decision for them, its quite simple.

 

No, his fastball was not basically fine all season. Go back and check out his numbers over a 3 week stretch in June when he lost velocity. He was very ordinary. He gave up 8 runs in 7 innings and it wasn't due to walks. He only allowed 2. It was entirely because he did not have a third pitch and his fastball was not in the upper 90's. More importantly they had to give him extra rest just like they are doing now. He's lost velocity at least twice out of the pen this season. It will be worse as a starter.

No, his fastball was not basically fine all season. Go back and check out his numbers over a 3 week stretch in June when he lost velocity. He was very ordinary. He gave up 8 runs in 7 innings and it wasn't due to walks. He only allowed 2. It was entirely because he did not have a third pitch and his fastball was not in the upper 90's. More importantly they had to give him extra rest just like they are doing now. He's lost velocity at least twice out of the pen this season. It will be worse as a starter.

 

Ok so once again you wanted him to start throwing other pitches after two months of not having to use them since he was in the bullpen? Ok yeah makes perfect sense and so smart to do. Lets have a guy who hasn't thrown those pitches in 2 months start throwing them in key moments in a game....

 

As a starter he would be throwing those pitches more often on a daily basis. I mean shoot you even admitted when a guy has a fastball like he does, there is no other reason to really throw other pitches when closing. So why act like since he does that as a closer, that it means he wouldn't throw other pitches while starting. You keep not counting spring training when the Reds were planning on using him as as a starter, however is important to count considering he was throwing the other pitches more in spring training. I never once said that it would carry over well in the season, maybe he would struggle big time. I dont know how he would do, no one does. Just have said it was worth a shot, which it is. However if they dont decide to try it that is fine to, its a good problem to have.

Them throwing on there off days is nothing like getting ready back to back and sometimes 3 days in a row to throw in a game with the game on the line. Its really unknown how his arm would do as a starter.

 

Some throw 100% bullpens everyday. The only thing that changes is pitch count.

Some throw 100% bullpens everyday. The only thing that changes is pitch count.

 

Which I have no idea about this, however I bet the younger pitchers do not throw 100% bullpens everyday. Especially guys like Chapman, Strasburg, etc.

Which I have no idea about this, however I bet the younger pitchers do not throw 100% bullpens everyday. Especially guys like Chapman, Strasburg, etc.

 

Considering a kid that just got drafted and just finished his college career does, I'd say it's possible. It really is up to the individual pitcher. Some think they are better with full pens everyday.

You may have already read the long post I just made. But to spare other people from reading it, I will shorten it. You probably are in the minority of people who actually think the Reds decision to put him in the bullpen was not because of injuries. Shoot even the people who are with you on the Chapman should only be in the pen probably would also admit that injuries was the main reason why he started in the pen this year. The Reds were not confident at all in the back end of the bullpen to start the year. The closer they just signed was out for the year. The guy they got to be the setup man was going to have to close, even though he never really had before. The other guy they have used as a setup man in Massett was hurt, and also wasn't Bill Brey hurt too? Reds management fully planned on trying him as a starter, and spring training did not change their mind on that. However injuries is what made the decision for them, its quite simple.

 

Thanks for shortening that for us.

Ugh.

Thanks for shortening that for us.

 

Hey you should have seen it before I shortened it.