Frances Bavier

While I don't personally believe in Satan, I could not possibly agree more strongly with the intent of your assessment of these two men. Frances

You are exactly right, LBBC. Unfortunately, I don't always show the restraint and maturity that is needed, and that is a failing on my part. Frances

Excellent point, and again, I agree. Frances

Oh come on, "H". Surely you understand that if a newspaper such as the New York Times writes an article that quotes the National Intelligence Estimate, then the entire document is invalidated. Why, anyone can see that the National Counterterrorism Center is simply a left wing think tank. You liberals are soooooooo easy to decieve... You simply have to learn to ignore such gibberish, and rely on our current administration to provide you with the real picture of what is happening around the world. After all, they got us into Iraq, didn't they? How can you possibly not see the wisdom of that? Frances

- and - I've got a feeling that the truth is somewhere in between these two. That said, I'll have to go with the Musketeers playing their best game of the year, and icing down the Tomcats: Greenup 24 Ashland 20 Frances

I understand what you are saying, LBBC, but this is a classic example of the "No trues Scotsman" fallacy. There are many (but not nearly enough) Muslims that disavow the actions of the terrorists, just as you wish to wash your hands of those that bomb black churches in the south, or assassinate doctors that perform abortions in the name of Christianity. If one is going to force the Muslim faith to "claim" the actions of these Islamic extremists, then Christianity is forced to wear the actions of those that commit such acts in the name of Christ. If you wish to distance yourself from the likes of Fred Phelps and Pat Robertson, then you must extend the same logic to the peace loving Muslims of this world - whatever percentage of the followers of that faith they represent. Frances

I'm guessing that Dr. Slepian didn't die of a traumatic headache. I'd even be willing to go as far as to say that being gunned down in the kitchen of his own home was slightly more dangerous than being "prostelytized" to. Frances

This thread is based on a report called the National Intelligence Estimate. The article in the New York Times simply referenced the data contained in the report. Frances

Let me get this straight. Bush takes us into a war to overthrow a sovereign government, on trumped up charges, spends a trillion or two dollars doing so, fans the flames of radical Islamic terrorists, needlessly places our American soldiers in harm's way (to the tune of over 2500 dead and closing in on 20,000 wounded), refuses to admit that it was all a horrendous error in judgement, and somehow, it's the Democrats' fault that they don't have a magical answer on how to end this tragic fiasco? Oh yeah - this makes sense. Basically, your position is, "My boy W got us into this uneeded, unjustified, unpopular, misguided mess - but since you can't solve the problem, I'll stay with Georgie because I'm sure that he's got the answer". I'll pass. Frances

My reference to facing the truth was not geared toward the opinions held by the general population (polls), presidential historians, or our standing in the international community. Collectively, they simply reflect current view that the overwhelming majority of the earth's population hold of W, and this war of choice that he took us into. My reference to "ignoring the truth" was a reference to the manner in which Rumsfield, Bush, and Cheney simply ignore the realities that surround them, and use their distorted view to justify their actions. To stand in front of a microphone and make the claim that we have terrorism on the run, and that the world is a safer place because of our invasion of Iraq is ludicrous. To be able to make such a claim, one has to be able to completely discount the reports that are being issued by the intelligence community and the latest National Intelligence Estimate - issued by the National Counterterrorism Center. Try to take notice that it isn't some liberally slanted article written by a left wing nut working at the Op-Ed desk of the New York Times. Convenient as that might be, it isn't the truth. It also isn't opinion. It is derived from statistics of what is happening around the globe. Frances

Absolutely, let's do that. Of course, while we wait, we'll just have to ignore what the rest of the world, the presidential historians, and all the polls are telling us. It would be terribly inconvenient to have to face the truth during the interim. Frances

Exactly. It would appear, however, that this point is lost (conveniently so) on some. True, but it's easier to attack the messenger (in this case, her weight, her friendships, or her sexual orientation. To be honest, I find most of the "shots" taken at Rosie to be quite funny, but they don't negate the point she made about Christian extremists. This post is taken from the thread discussing the Pope's comments, and his apology. This is a perfect example of the point that Rockmom and I are making. Neither Rockmom, nor myself has "defended" Rosie O'Donnell. We are simply pointing out that her comment regarding Christian extremists is valid. As HHSDad pointed out, her remarks specifically called out "Christian" fanatics, comparing them to Islamic fanatics. I would think that the reason for this is because it was made during a conversation about the two religions. The truth is, extremists of any religion are dangerous - to nonbelievers of that particular faith, and to the good will being fostered by those that follow the religion peacefully. Frances

Oh, I don't know. She might be referring to people like Pat Robertson, who espouses the assasination of the leaders of countries that don't agree with his view of God. Or, maybe, she could be referring to people like Eric Rudolph, who, as a serial bomber, has killed three people and maimed another 150 or so. Wait - maybe she was referring to people like James Kopp, who assasinated a doctor in his kitchen. It might have been Jim Jones, who convinced his followers to drink cyanide laced Kool-Aid. Possibly, she had Bobby Cherry and Bob Chambliss in mind. You might remember their handywork, planting 19 sticks of dynamite in the basement of a black church in Birmingham, Alabama. If you'd like, I could expand the examples, to include the fact that between 1969 and 2001, 3,523 people were killed as a result of the Catholic/Protestant wars in Ireland. I could go on, but I think you get the picture. EVERY single instance I gave above was a classic case of violence in the name of God. In these instances, it was the same God that many Americans pray to. Also, I used only examples from my lifetime, so as to eliminate the need to act as if we have somehow moved from a violent past, to an age of peace, love and understanding. The truth is, these examples are not the norm, but then again, it's not like they happened three hundred years ago either. Frances

"Good" and "evil" are relative terms, when it comes to spreading ones religious views to others that don't share them. Rosie (and CSHS) weren't talking about people that view God, religion, or the world in a radically new way. They were talking about extremists, not radicals. The extremism that is being referred to here, is the use of violence and terrorism to force ones views of God (and what one thinks God wants) onto people that don't share that particular point of view. Frances

I think it's obvious that her point was that EXTREMISTS from any religion are "threatening". I don't think you could find many black people that lived in Birmingham in 1963 that would argue with the point. Terrorism is terrorism - putting the mask of a religion (any religion) on it does not change that fact. Simply because the majority of the people that live in this country are Christians does not absolve us of our past, nor does having a short memory wipe the slate clean. For my money, the biggest difference is that Christians (as a whole) are capable of denouncing the atrocities that are committed in the name of God than the average Muslim would appear to be. My biggest problem with Islam right now isn't that they have extremists, but the fact that the followers that don't embrace this "jihad of the day" mentality don't openly denounce the terrorists. If they do speak out against them, it is only quietly, and without any teeth. In America, when you shoot a doctor because he performs abortions, we still put you on trial when we catch you, and you don't get extra credit for claiming that you killed in the name of God. The same is definitiely not true in the countries that are heavily influenced by Islam. Frances

No - well, at least, not in this century. Make no mistake - I'm not attacking Christianity (or any other faith, for that matter), but let's not forget that EVERY organized religion has had followers that have done some incredible things in the name of God: 1) The Crusades 2) The Spanish Inquisition (with tortures that are off of the charts) 3) The bombing of abortion clinics 4) The bombing of black churches in the south (killing four of the most innocent little girls that have ever been martyred - for any cause) Now, in answer to FB's question, yes, I think Rosie has gone too far in her attempt to compare the current state of these two religions (Islam and Chrisitianity). Let me ask this of you now, Fastbreak - in your opinion, would the followers of Christianity be justified in attempting to wipe Islam from the face of the earth? I'm not speaking in the abstract here - I'm asking you if you believe that under the current circumstances, Christians should literally try to eliminate every Muslim from the face of the earth? If we understand that the KKK, David Koresh, Pat Robertson, Jim Jones, Torquemada, James Kopp, and Eric Rudolph don't speak for Christianity, then I would think that we are capable of understanding that the extremists from the faith of Islam do not speak for all of its followers. Frances

LOL - is that it? 1) The refs were horrible, and they all but cheated Raceland (insane spots, no holding calls, couldn't see obvious facemask infractions, blatantly lopsided calls). 2) The Raceland coaches don't know what they're doing, and almost cost you the game (strange playcalling, gave up on the running game, shouldn't have been in the shotgun). 3) No mention of the strong effort by the opponent, much less giving them any real credit. Was there was anything about the game that you did like? Frances

Ouch. And I do mean "Ouch". Frances

I'll take Prestonsburg in a close one: Prestonsburg 28 Ashland 8 Frances PS - Just trying to keep my streak alive ...

Hey OneIJoe - Don't encourage Catdaddy. Trust me when I say that you DON'T want to sit downwind of Catdaddy after he's been eating Mexican food. He didn't get the nickname "El Flatulante Grande" for no reason... Frances

I watched this game on TV, and I have to agree with Rocks 4 Ever. When St. X took the game over, it was on the work of that offensive line. No disrespect to the Highlands O-line, because they were solid as well. All that said, I think even I could gain yardage running behind the left side of the St. X line. Well, footage anyway... Frances

A fine post, LRCW, but do you really think Emily could have beaten me in my prime? I can remember lacing up the old basketball cleats, stepping into that skirt, and trotting out for warmups. Working my way through the layup line to the tune of "Sweet Georgia Brown", then getting my coils loose for the opening tip ... Oh yeah - the matchup of Frances, from back in my salad days, versus Emily Queen at her peak... instant classic. Get the camera's rolling and sell tickets to that one. Frances

Congratulations to Emily, and I hope she tears it up in college. More importantly, I hope she continues her academic success, and makes Gertrude proud. On a side note, I want to thank Himmelfarb for sending me a DVD of Emily in action, knocking down threes, boxing out, running the floor, handling the pill, and playing some serious "D". Enviously, Frances PS - If Emily should need it, I believe I still have my old basketball skirt in the armoir, from back in the day. Of course, it might have to be taken in a bit at the waist ....

Solid start to the season for the Rams. Now let's watch Aaron Pettrey carry the banner tomorrow, against Texas... Frances

Congrats to the Devils. Nice win over the County. Just curious - I wonder how things are going for Lee Evans at BC? Is it still too early to tell how he will be received? Frances