bothways

I don’t remember seeing a suggestion of promotion/relegation. Which doesn’t really make sense when you wouldn’t have to play every team in the conference? Is the promotion/relegation determined by the one or two games within your bracket of the conference? And again, high school soccer isn’t about winning and losing or even that only the “best” team advance (see state tournament) it’s about participation. If a weaker team wants to play a stronger one it shouldn’t be the stronger team that gets to make the determination. It should be the weaker.

Continuing to just play won’t work in soccer. The game is too long and tiring. It will cause more injury either through exhaustion or making poor challenges.

The problem with that is that it really only considers the upper teams. The lower skills may want to play better teams for experience. They deserve that right. High school sports is about participating, not winning. Under the current system they can choose to take a loss in the conference if they don’t want to play. If they want to though, the “better” team shouldn’t be allowed to refuse.

Here we go again. “PKs are terrible” cricket sounds when you ask for a logistically workable alternative.

Cov Caths district traditionally did a “random” draw. Not sure that is still the case. Their district is stronger than it used to be. While playing Ohio teams is good experience it shouldn’t make up the bulk of the schedule for a KY team.

The conference I can’t speak to because it is a nebulous and confusing thing. The districts is easier. In order to develop the district seeding the teams have to play in order to find the ranking. Does this mean some lopsided matches, sure. We’ve had the discussion before but a game that seems like a waste to a good team may be a needed experience for a weaker team to see how they play. Districts probably have the option to just blind draw (I think I remember reading one of them does that) but that isn’t perfect either. We hear about how the blind draw ruins the state tournament every year because people complain the weaker rural areas get a team when strong teams from Louisville have to battle it out for a place.

Are you being snarky? Do you really not think that was a handball?

That pretty much seals it.

What he said. If they had played advantage the red card would be nullified. If you listen I think the whistle blows after the rebound goes in. While this should be done correctly this is a high stress situation and understandable to get flustered. Learn from mistakes.

Based on just the video, really doubtful. Looks like the NDA coach is screaming to get the card and with how short a time it took to do the PK I doubt the SK coach really got to say anything.

The government is nothing compared to high school when it comes to conspiracies and back door dealings. Lol.

Ah. Well let me clarify because they weren’t really correct either. Handling in and of itself is ONLY a violation when deliberate. If it’s not deliberate it’s nothing, not even a PK. Note that deliberate is a more complicated term than just did they mean to handle the ball. Go to any ref course and you’ll see that. This particular card issue comes from when they handled the ball deliberately. Which in this case was a successful attempt to block a goal. At that point we’ve already established it was deliberate because we have called it. So, because of that it’s a red card. Too many people get into whether the player “meant” to do something. That’s really not the point. It’s did they do it or not.

Terrible rule?

Having watched the video it was pretty clearly a deliberate handling to deny a goal.

That’s not really true either. If the ref thought it wasn’t deliberate then it shouldn’t have been a PK either. That’s part of the requirement for handling. If you call this it should be red. That said who knows why they didn’t give it.

Indeed.

It took me a while of looking at it to see it as well. If the actual rule book is set up the same way then there is little doubt how refs coaches and players can be ignorant to details like this. I think this fits with the IFAB and their desire to remove the “triple punishment” though. Because if the foul isn’t in the Box then we really don’t have three punishments. It’s only two at most. Interestingly I was talking to a Referee friend of mine and he said that the sitting out a game thing isn’t really a requirement. That is determined by the league. So the question sort of becomes, why not remove that part rather than add an additional thing for the referees to have to worry about.

That’s fair. And the unfortunate reality is that Dogso has an inherently subjective component, which it sounds like has been increased with the additional detail of determining an attempt to play the ball vs not an attempt to play the ball. We can watch the play and determine in the situations WE wouldn’t have given a red card but if we can’t point to a clear and obvious error I think it all comes back to players needing to think about their actions. Don’t put the Referee on the spot to force them to make these calls unless you are willing to take the consequences if they decide against you.

So I was able to find the CHANGES to the NFHS rules though not the rule book itself. They don’t state what you have posted. Matter of fact it’s the exact opposite. The actual wording is below my emphasis added. Original link here: https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/soccer-rules-changes-2018-19/ 12-8-1f, 15 (NEW): 1. A player, coach or bench personnel shall be cautioned (yellow card) for: f. unsporting conduct, including, but not limited to: 15. A player who commits an offense against an opponent within his/her team penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, if the offense was an attempt to play the ball. 12-8-2d3, 4 2. A player, coach or bench personnel shall be disqualified (red card) for: (NEW) d. committing serious foul play: 3. a player commits a foul, outside the penalty area, attempting to deny an obvious goal-scoring opportunity, and the goal is not scored; or 4. a player commits a foul, inside the penalty area, while not attempting to play the ball, and the goal is not scored. Rationale: This change addresses the issues of denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity (DOGSO) that occur in the game that places a player and team in double jeopardy when applying a penalty. I’m not sure where you got your information but regardless of IFAB or NFHS they appear to be saying that fouls outside the area which are Dogso are still red. And fouls inside the area that are not a play on the ball are also still red. Hence why this play is red.

Why would you agree with Mex, by his description it was a pull? So it would be a red card. You even referenced the IFAB laws which specifically state this.

A pull or grab would not be an attempt to play the ball. I do know that. I was able to download the FIFA Laws for free. No idea where to get the high school rules.

Fair enough. That’s why I wanted to see video if it was out there. From the description though it sounds like some of the reds we see in the MLS on a somewhat regular basis, for what that’s worth.

No idea.

I guess I still don’t see it as harsh based on the description. You’re putting a lot of what ifs on a play where to all descriptions it sounds like he was on goal and if not for the foul has a real chance. And if it’s the kid I’m thinking of he’s a pretty real threat. Red cards are unfortunate and the goal scoring opportunity ones always feel all the more so because just a few minor details being changed and the foul could be nothing more than a foul. But that’s the game.

So it wasn’t really that harsh? I guess what I’m getting at is was there anyone going to stop him from shooting or anything if not for the foul? Was he in a position where he got would not have been a likely scoring opportunity? If no and yes I’m not sure what can be argued to say it was incorrect. I think it’s always easier for the ref to give a yellow because people feel less upset by it, but it doesn’t make it right. Is there video? I’d be curious in seeing it. The World Cup has me all kinds of confused on the consistency between various leagues.