The rule used in the Cathedral game was that of the NCAA. Are we certain that the NCAA rule includes a ban on "celebratory" as well as "taunting" gestures?

 

This was my point to the official who flagged our guy for raising his hand while going into the endzone. He didn't give me a definitive answer when I pressed him about whether it was a high school rule as well as college -- that made me think he was a little unsure himself.

The rule used in the Cathedral game was that of the NCAA. Are we certain that the NCAA rule includes a ban on "celebratory" as well as "taunting" gestures? The article I read yesterday, stated the new-for-this-year NCAA rule included a ban on only "taunting" gestures, which I would not consider the QB raising his arm to be.

 

I disagree. I think any premature celebration that happens before the player reaches the end zone could be construed as taunting. The player is basically saying, "I beat them so bad I can start celebrating before the play is even over!" I've always interpreted any premature celebration as an "in your face" taunt.

Basically one person's celebration is another's taunt.

I guess we should have been flagged for a lot more penalties this year....

 

 

Pointing upward in joy is not taunting. The rules (if meant to stop this) and the called penalties in the videos are over the top.

One of the dumbest penalties that has ever been called. The official has to have better judgement in that situation.

 

If he does a flip into the endzone, then fine, throw the flag. If he turns around and taunts the helpless defenders, throw the flag.

 

Simply raising his arm to celebrate the biggest play of his life (which was ripped away from him by an adult who made a poor decision), is not taunting and should not be a penalty.

One of the dumbest penalties that has ever been called. The official has to have better judgement in that situation.

 

If he does a flip into the endzone, then fine, throw the flag. If he turns around and taunts the helpless defenders, throw the flag.

 

Simply raising his arm to celebrate the biggest play of his life (which was ripped away from him by an adult who made a poor decision), is not taunting and should not be a penalty.

 

What about pumping the fist or chest-thumping as he's running down the field? What about high-stepping? And none of these directed at the opposing players.

 

The point is where do you draw the line? The refs have to be told something, otherwise you get inconsistent application of a penalty that could cost a team points, maybe the game. If I put myself in the role of the rule maker, I have to think of a rule and it's application. What's the easiest, most fair and easiest to apply standard? In this case I think it's zero tolerance for celebrations. It's not that I'm personally against celebrations, or shows of emotion, it's just that if it's not tightly regulated it can get out of hand.

 

Fact is, I think refs are using good judgment overall on Friday nights. You have to remember that we are discussing/debating an exception, not the norm. It's not like refs are going flag crazy calling these penalties.

 

All is well! All is well!

What about pumping the fist or chest-thumping as he's running down the field? What about high-stepping? And none of these directed at the opposing players.

 

The point is where do you draw the line? The refs have to be told something, otherwise you get inconsistent application of a penalty that could cost a team points, maybe the game. If I put myself in the role of the rule maker, I have to think of a rule and it's application. What's the easiest, most fair and easiest to apply standard? In this case I think it's zero tolerance for celebrations. It's not that I'm personally against celebrations, or shows of emotion, it's just that if it's not tightly regulated it can get out of hand.

 

Fact is, I think refs are using good judgment overall on Friday nights. You have to remember that we are discussing/debating an exception, not the norm. It's not like refs are going flag crazy calling these penalties.

 

All is well! All is well!

 

I'm not talking about any other situation besides this particular one. I see nothing wrong with that what the kid did.

 

My opinion:

 

Am I supposed to believe that these kids can have their bodies beaten physically throughout the season, but will be mentally crushed when a kid on the other team pumps his fist after making the biggest play of his life? If they didn't want to see his fist raised in victory, they should've fought through the blocks and made a play to stop him. This is football, not drama club.

 

Football is a game that is played with great emotion and heart. Let the kids celebrate when they make a play worthy of a celebration. They have put in plenty of blood, sweat and tears...let them have a little enjoyment out of it all.

 

I can say this, when I was playing, I didn't even think twice about opponent's raising their fists to celebrate. Honestly, I didn't think twice about it when I was knocked into the bleachers after the whistle blew (looking at you Prestonsburg). I plotted and executed my revenge, but it didn't hurt my feelings any. To me, that was just football.

In the Mayfield vs Hazard state game this year Hazard got 2 of these penalities for spiking the ball after scoring touchdowns

Obviously touchdown dances are not appropriate. Taunting is definately not appropriate. I think a player should be able to put a number 1 up in the air, pump his fist, or do a chest bump without penalty. I do not like the rule in college where they can take a touchdown back because too much is up to interpretation. The team that was "taunted" should be able to choose on the xpt or the kickoff. If there are multiple unsportsmanlike penalties then the refs should be able to enforce multiple of the same penalties.

 

The best question you should ask yourself, why are rules made?

Last night I watched both of HHS's kick returns for TD's against Lex Cath in the semi's, and in both cases the HHS returner began to pump his arm forward, not up, in celebration before reaching the endzone (luckily his arm without the ball!). This would be a good one to discuss how this rule is applied, because in each case it was 100% CLEAR that the HHS player was celebrating out of excitement, not taunting the opposing team in any way, and in neither case was a flag thrown. IMO, the officials handled it perfectly - they met the intent of the rule without being unnecessarily rigid towards a kid who was clearly sky-high with excitement and emotion.

Maybe enforcement of the rule should be a judgement call by the refs. In both cases, flagging was ridiculous.

 

Side note, the coverage for the game in Texas is unreal. We need to pick it up.

 

The problem for me in making it a judgment call is that certain refs tolerate certain behavior in a game; next game with different refs, the same actions result in a game changing penalty. The more brightline rules we have, the better for the game and the easier it is on the kids, the coaches and the refs. Tough enough on adults trying to understand how judgment calls will be made; very tough on 16, 17 and 18 year old kids jacked up on adrenaline and emotions.

 

IMO, the clearest way to deal with it is say zero before score celebration by the person scoring will be tolerated; ever. Coaches can clearly explain that rule to their kids without having to try to explain how some refs might interpret excessive celebration. It's black and white clear. Plus you don't have to deal with the additional subjectivity as to whether it was just innocent celebration or whether it was taunting or something interpreted by the other team as taunting that could later in the game cause bigger problems.

 

I'm in no way saying a finger pointed skyward or a self imposed chest pump before scoring is close to the behavior demonstrated in the UC vs X game Saturday, but that whole episode reinforces my belief that we have to remain ever vigilant to keep the garbage found in college and pro sports out of high school athletics. I guarantee you that before the melee Saturday night, you'd have found plenty of fans and commentators justifying trash talking by saying it's just players venting their emotions and it's become part of the game. In theory at least, pro and college players should be more emotionally mature because they are older and thus be able to better handle the taunting and trash talking than teenage boys. If college and pro athletes can't handle it as demonstrated in the UC vs X game, I'm not sure we can logically expect teenage kids to handle it any better.

 

Thus I believe that we need to be concerned, actually overly concerned, that such behavior is not allowed to infect high school athletics and err on the side of being excessively strict (even if that means a kid doesn't get to celebrate a big play by him the way he'd like).

The problem for me in making it a judgment call is that certain refs tolerate certain behavior in a game; next game with different refs, the same actions result in a game changing penalty. The more brightline rules we have, the better for the game and the easier it is on the kids, the coaches and the refs. Tough enough on adults trying to understand how judgment calls will be made; very tough on 16, 17 and 18 year old kids jacked up on adrenaline and emotions.

 

IMO, the clearest way to deal with it is say zero before score celebration by the person scoring will be tolerated; ever. Coaches can clearly explain that rule to their kids without having to try to explain how some refs might interpret excessive celebration. It's black and white clear. Plus you don't have to deal with the additional subjectivity as to whether it was just innocent celebration or whether it was taunting or something interpreted by the other team as taunting that could later in the game cause bigger problems.

 

I'm in no way saying a finger pointed skyward or a self imposed chest pump before scoring is close to the behavior demonstrated in the UC vs X game Saturday, but that whole episode reinforces my belief that we have to remain ever vigilant to keep the garbage found in college and pro sports out of high school athletics. I guarantee you that before the melee Saturday night, you'd have found plenty of fans and commentators justifying trash talking by saying it's just players venting their emotions and it's become part of the game. In theory at least, pro and college players should be more emotionally mature because they are older and thus be able to better handle the taunting and trash talking than teenage boys. If college and pro athletes can't handle it as demonstrated in the UC vs X game, I'm not sure we can logically expect teenage kids to handle it any better.

 

Thus I believe that we need to be concerned, actually overly concerned, that such behavior is not allowed to infect high school athletics and err on the side of being excessively strict (even if that means a kid doesn't get to celebrate a big play by him the way he'd like).

 

Totally agree.