Fair question.

 

Harry is right its all subjective, had both of these kids had defenders right on them as they did the act, or been more extreme with what they did then sure the flag makes sense.

 

Also something to consider that we cant see is, the theme of the whole game to that point. What I mean is, was it an intense game, had there been other penaltys or little skirmishes during the game that may have forced the refs to call the game tighter (more by the book) than they would have.

If I have to make a choice between elminating everything (which is apparently what they're trying to do), or having the possibility of an isolated incident go unpunished...I'd go ahead and allow it. AS LONG AS it's not directed at the opposition. Then it's a different story.

 

For instance, if a guy scores and turns to his teammates in the end zone and thumps his chest...he's getting them pumped up. No problem with that. But, if he scores and turns toward the oppostion's bench (or stands) and does it...then he's trying to show off. Flag him.

 

I think it's easier, more practical, and better to eliminate it completely. Otherwise it's left up to the judgment of the ref as to what crosses the line. Which means a kid could score a TD, thump his chest and get no penalty. The next week he scores on the last play of the game to win it, thumps his chest and a different ref flags him and they lose the game. He thought the chest thump was okay because he did it the previous week, but when there's room for interpretation it can cause lots of trouble, IMO.

If I have to make a choice between elminating everything (which is apparently what they're trying to do), or having the possibility of an isolated incident go unpunished...I'd go ahead and allow it. AS LONG AS it's not directed at the opposition. Then it's a different story.

 

For instance, if a guy scores and turns to his teammates in the end zone and thumps his chest...he's getting them pumped up. No problem with that. But, if he scores and turns toward the oppostion's bench (or stands) and does it...then he's trying to show off. Flag him.

 

I think with the rule being subjective, the kids have no outlet to show their emotion, they dont know what they can do. Perhaps if they added to the rule that A. B. C. D. is acceptable then it may help this. At least then you can say, you could have done this, this, this or this, but you did this so flag.

I'm all for emotions in the game. If they want to flag what they think is excessive celebration or taunting then go ahead. Just enforce the 15 yards on the PAT if they score or mark off 15 if they don't score. I know that doesn't answer the question of where the line is drawn for the flag but having touchdowns erased over what may or may not be excessive celebration or taunting grates me.

 

Personally, anything not done towards the oppositon's bench or an opposing player should be allowed.

I think it's easier, more practical, and better to eliminate it completely. Otherwise it's left up to the judgment of the ref as to what crosses the line. Which means a kid could score a TD, thump his chest and get no penalty. The next week he scores on the last play of the game to win it, thumps his chest and a different ref flags him and they lose the game. He thought the chest thump was okay because he did it the previous week, but when there's room for interpretation it can cause lots of trouble, IMO.

 

Eliminate it completely and I fear we'll be seeing NFL type behavior (taunting, trash talking) on high school fields asap. With it will come the Fulton County vs Calloway County type fights on a more frequent basis. God that was awful. If you don't remember it, here's a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IsuvKrdF_Y.

 

Benches cleared, helmets used as weapons, over 20 players suspended and I think criminal charges ugly filed. The problem with permitting celebrations but banning taunting is what is considered as celebrating to one group of kids might be considered taunting to opponents. As people like to say, football is an emotional support, sometimes extremely emotional. Rather than run the risk of similar Fulton Co./Callloway Co. incidents, I'd rather kids just develop the discipline (one of the life qualities supposed to be taught and learned through participation in high school athletics) needed to control their emotions until they get to the sidelines. It disgusts me, literally disgusts me every time I see a Highlands player jump up and down on the field after he makes a tackle. Then again, I'm an old man, that has old school values. I subscribe to the Bear Bryant philosophy.

 

I'll be in the minority I'm sure with my line of thinking on this issue.

Eliminate it completely and I fear we'll be seeing NFL type behavior (taunting, trash talking) on high school fields asap. With it will come the Fulton County vs Calloway County type fights on a more frequent basis. God that was awful. If you don't remember it, here's a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IsuvKrdF_Y.

 

Benches cleared, helmets used as weapons, over 20 players suspended and I think criminal charges ugly filed. The problem with permitting celebrations but banning taunting is what is considered as celebrating to one group of kids might be considered taunting to opponents. As people like to say, football is an emotional support, sometimes extremely emotional. Rather than run the risk of similar Fulton Co./Callloway Co. incidents, I'd rather kids just develop the discipline (one of the life qualities supposed to be taught and learned through participation in high school athletics) needed to control their emotions until they get to the sidelines. It disgusts me, literally disgusts me every time I see a Highlands player jump up and down on the field after he makes a tackle. Then again, I'm an old man, that has old school values. I subscribe to the Bear Bryant philosophy.

 

I'll be in the minority I'm sure with my line of thinking on this issue.

 

LN, I meant eliminate the celebration completely, not the rule. Sorry if I was unclear.

We had the same exact thing happen to us this year. Kid scoring a TD just raised his hand with a finger raised in excitement as he crossed goalline. Flagged and 15yds assessed. Player that did it is about the least 'unsportsmanlike' kid I've coached -- he is, however, a competitor, loves winning, and expresses joy when he or a teammate makes a great play for a score.

 

In the same game, our opponent made a tackle behind the line of scrimmage and you'd have thought he just won the Super Bowl with his flexing toward his own sideline. I didn't think it was an issue since he didn't taunt any of us at all, but how could the same crew label what our kid did as 'excessive' and not a display straight out of the Mr. America competition? I think it was because our kid was on a SCORING play and the tackler wasn't--but it's impossible to know what an official is thinking when viewing a play one way and a similar play in another.

 

It's my belief that there's no place in the game for 'taunting' an opposing player for any reason. I don't even like the 'high-stepping' or 'front-flip-into-the-endzone' thing because it's technically taunting in that you're showing your opponent they're so weak you can score with little effort.

 

However, holding a single finger up in celebration while doing nothing to taunt or disparage the other team in any way. Nor should a SHORT celebration with teammates in the endzone after a score bring a flag.

 

I guess it's the sort of thing that goes to the judgment of the official. Hard to define what is and what isn't 'excessive' (though I think taunting is pretty easy to spot), but I wish they'd try so we can either tell our players to enjoy the game and be excuberant or tell them they must completely restrain their emotions during a game. Don't really care which they tell us; just want to be able to teach my kids correctly.

By the way, though I disagreed with the call, I do believe the officials in our game ENFORCED the penalty in a fair way. Our TD stood, but the opposing team--since it was a scoring play with a foul--was given the choice to get the 15yds. on the try or on the kickoff. I believe this should be the correct enforcement for CELEBRATION (dead ball foul) regardless of what they decide about what is excessive and what is not. I do think TAUNTING should be a 'live-ball, spot-foul.'

By the way, though I disagreed with the call, I do believe the officials in our game ENFORCED the penalty in a fair way. Our TD stood, but the opposing team--since it was a scoring play with a foul--was given the choice to get the 15yds. on the try or on the kickoff. I believe this should be the correct enforcement for CELEBRATION (dead ball foul) regardless of what they decide about what is excessive and what is not. I do think TAUNTING should be a 'live-ball, spot-foul.'

 

That’s a great point. I say change these rules so in situation where the player is flagged for celebrating a TD, the penalty is enforced on the kickoff or extra point and not remove the points from the board, possibly deciding the outcome of the game.

The celebration penalties were flying during the KHSAA football state title games for nothing more than spiking a ball, yet there were coaches nearly out to mid-field (not exaggerating) who were not even given sideline warnings. That is the problem with leaving some open for interpretation and some as automatic.

That’s a great point. I say change these rules so in situation where the player is flagged for celebrating a TD, the penalty is enforced on the kickoff or extra point and not remove the points from the board, possibly deciding the outcome of the game.

 

The problem with this approach is that it would go against the way all other penalties are enforced.

 

If a holding penalty happens during a play (even a TD), the play is penalized - no TD and -10 yards. If something happens after a TD, it's a dead ball foul and is assessed on the extra point or the kickoff. IMO, to be completely consistent, if the celebration begins before the TD (crossing the goal line) the TD should be taken away and yardage penalty enforced. If it happens after the TD, then assess it on the XP or kickoff. If it is not enforced this way, what do you do if the kid starts celebrating prematurely and then is tackled at the one yard line? I think enforcement should be based on when/where the penalty happens, just like all other penalties.

I believe that the 2nd video could have been gone either way, but an ejection was ridiculous. First video was a right call IMO.

 

Live-ball - spot foul would and should be the right call for offensive penalties. I think more enforcement needs to happen on the defensive celebrations as well.

This makes no sense to me. Let's look at other sports. In baseball/softball a kid hits a home run they pump their fist, hit a walk off the whole team surrounds the plate and they jump up and down; in soccer a kid scores a goal the kids slap hands, hug each other and pump their fist, a kid raises their arms when they finish a

meet in CC; In basketball kids high five and run down the court pumping their fists; etc. Why is football different when celebrating? I agree no taunting but

celebrating GET REAL they're kids.

This makes no sense to me. Let's look at other sports. In baseball/softball a kid hits a home run they pump their fist, hit a walk off the whole team surrounds the plate and they jump up and down; in soccer a kid scores a goal the kids slap hands, hug each other and pump their fist, a kid raises their arms when they finish a

meet in CC; In basketball kids high five and run down the court pumping their fists; etc. Why is football different when celebrating? I agree no taunting but

celebrating GET REAL they're kids.

 

In football emotions run hotter, they're wearing protective gear and there's an opportunity very soon after the celebration to use physical violence (which is part of the game) to extract whatever vengeance a player wants. Celebrations must be looked at and treated differently in football, otherwise someone could get seriously injured due to a cheap shot.

LN, I meant eliminate the celebration completely, not the rule. Sorry if I was unclear.

 

No problem. It was probably my fault.